Image Variance Between Aperture Priority and Full Auto

[boojum]

OK, maybe I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so we start from there.  I have just gotten a new X2D and am feeling my way around it and have found that taking a photo aperture priority followed immediately by a photo full auto gives two different photos.  "A" photo is light, almost pale with washed out color.  "AUTO" photo has deeper, darker, richer colors and seems more interesting to me.  So the firmware processes the data differently, yes, but why the great disparity?

You look for the answer, I'll look for a sharpening stone.  ;o)

Aperture priority:  https://flic.kr/p/2nYncyz
Full Auto:  https://flic.kr/p/2nYkPoF

[SrMi]

Is your output JPEG or raw? Could you share examples?

[boojum]

JPEG's.  The links are above you.

[Dicky]

Hi boojum 

Or you could always make life easy on "M" for 'manual' by looking for one of these to have in your camera kit!
https://www.kodak.com/en/motion/page/gray-card

Best wishes

[etn]

Looks more like a difference in exposure than a difference in processing.
Usually the colors will appear "deeper" with a lower exposure.

The shutter speed and iso on your "A" picture shows:
1) 3200 ISO
2) shutter speed of 1/2000, which is the max the camera can do

The reason why this picture is overexposed is because you impose an excessively high ISO (3200 is too much for outdoor sunny conditions) and  f/8. The camera compensates by doing a fast shutter speed, but reaches the physical limit of the system at 1/2000s.

The "full Auto" picture, on the opposite, was shot at 64 ISO and the exposure is correct, or even slightly underexposed (which is not a biggie on a camera like this).

Does this answer your question?

[Dicky]

Hi Boojum

This article and link, may possibly help you clarify and understand the reasons for different types of in-camera metering results, complete with some sample-photos to view!
Mr. Taylor is a Superstar

https://karltayloreducation.com/understanding-metering-which-metering-modes-to-use-when/
Best wishes 

[etn]

One thing which is often overlooked in this age of digital cameras with all built-in (reflective) exposure meters you can dream of is: INCIDENT metering. Sure, it will add a couple hundred $ for a meter on top of an already expensive camera. Sure, it is not as quick and easy, and requires you to carry more gear. (And No, I don't always carry my incident meter with me!) But it really allows to unleash the true potential of your camera!  And it works equally well with the latest X2D as with the oldest, unmetered 500C from the 50's.

[Dicky]

Hi etn

Superb advice!
"Decent meters" are really worth the investment ...

Ours have performed perfectly, for 'donkeys-years' and are accurate to 1/10th of a stop.
Personally, always have used the Minolta Spotmeter F (for-studio-flash) for taking spot-readings from grey-cards.

They are so good ... that we even carry a 'new-boxed' spare Spotmeter F in our studio+location spares, it even sits next to a brand-new boxed-original-spare Briese focus.2 flash-tube in its flight-case!!
Took some finding as, to get a Minolta Spotmeter F in as near as "brand-new-mint-unused-condition", as they can hold their price in that condition.
Also, use, but not as frequently, the Minolta Autometer IVF (for-location) for taking ambient light-readings of sets/scenes, that will be mixed-light set, with fill-in flash!.

Best wishes

[boojum]

Guys, OK, thank you for all the advice.  I have the grey card, but did not think to use it.  For "A" (aperture) priority I just set the aperture and let the camera do the rest as I do on a Leica.  Maybe it does not translate well from German to Swedish.  ;o)  This is why I was perplexed, in each case the camera was doing the number crunching.  I figure it is smarter than I, today.  I am hopeful for tomorrow.

Light meters!?  Light meters!?  Man, you gotta be kidding.  ;o)  I thought I gave them up with the old Sekoniks.  Woo, just checked their prices.  They go up there to the sky.  Let me see what meters go for, especially what you have advised.  Man, I won't be a pro but I can look like one.  LOL

Thank you all for the feedback.

Later:  OK, alternatives to the Minolta if I must?  I will bite the bullet and get a meter.  In for a penny in for a pound.

[Dicky]

Hi boojum

Pleasure!
This thread/link may possibly help you to decide which alturnate brands of Spotmeters to consider! ...
https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/206545-spotflash-meter-mintolta-f-pentax-or-sekonic-l488-or-l778/

Wish you lots of creative-fun with your camera-new kit!
Best wishes

[boojum]

Looks more like a difference in exposure than a difference in processing.
Usually the colors will appear "deeper" with a lower exposure.

The shutter speed and iso on your "A" picture shows:
1) 3200 ISO
2) shutter speed of 1/2000, which is the max the camera can do

The reason why this picture is overexposed is because you impose an excessively high ISO (3200 is too much for outdoor sunny conditions) and  f/8. The camera compensates by doing a fast shutter speed, but reaches the physical limit of the system at 1/2000s.

The "full Auto" picture, on the opposite, was shot at 64 ISO and the exposure is correct, or even slightly underexposed (which is not a biggie on a camera like this).

Does this answer your question?

Yes.  Back to the manual (RTFM) to sort this bugger out.

[etn]

Guys, OK, thank you for all the advice.  I have the grey card, but did not think to use it.  For "A" (aperture) priority I just set the aperture and let the camera do the rest as I do on a Leica.

That works well. Your only issue with your 1st picture above was the too high ISO. The Auto ISO of the camera was probably disabled?

For lightmeters, here are a few which are very versatile, as they do spot + incident + flash, but not cheap:
- Sekonic 758 (discontinued) or 858
- Kenko KFM 2100 (discontinued) or 2200
- Gossen Starlite / starlite 2 (both seem discontinued)

There are also many more which do only incident, or incident + flash, from the 3 brands above. That might be sufficient, as your camera already has a spot meter.

Look at the 2nd hand market. I found a KFM 2100 for $300 (OK, a long time ago) and it is all I will ever need.

Incident metering is useful if you are photographing objects or persons relatively close to you. More difficult with landscapes.
Using a meter, with your camera in full manual mode, helps understanding exposure. You will become a pro in no time I am sure

But you can as well start with the integrated meter of your camera. Use your camera in manual mode and meter on a grey card. The palm of your hand also provides a good estimate.

Remember, the trick is always as follows:

1. the film or sensor (which actually mimics film) is designed to receive a certain amount of light. Always the same!!!
This is the most important point. Once you understand this, you understand everything.
An ISO 200 film is twice as sensitive as an ISO 100 film and will need half the amount of light. The advantage for sensitivity is that it allows photographying in lower light (evening, interior) but the compromise is grain (with film) or noise (with digital sensor).

2. the light conditions of the scenes you want to photography vary. This is why metering is important.

3. You have 2 methods of regulating the incoming light: aperture (how much light comes through) and duration (how long you expose). If you let 2x more light through, you will need to expose half as long to get the same quantity of light.
Knowing how much light is available in the scene allows you to predict how much you will let through in order to get always the same amount on the film/sensor.

Here's an analogy:
you want to fill a glass with always the same amount of water. However your running water system is not very good and sometimes you get a lot of "pressure" (so to speak), sometimes less. In order to always get the amount of water you want, you adjust the faucet (more or less open) as well as the duration it is open.
An "ISO 200" glass will be half the size of an "ISO 100" glass.

Coming back to your 1st picture, the glass was very small (ISO 3200). The shutter of your camera could not open and close fast enough - it is limited, by construction, to 1/2000s. So water overflew out of the glass.
In the 2nd picture, the ISO was set to 64. The glass was much bigger and no water overflew.

Does this make sense?

Hope this helps

[etn]

Hi etn

Superb advice!
"Decent meters" are really worth the investment ...

Thanks Dinky, fully agree with you.
I started, like probably everyone else, with using the integrated meter of my camera. Then bought a Hasselblad 500 and needed an external meter - found the KFM2100 mentioned in my previous post.
The day I started using incident metering was a revelation to me Even (and particularly!) with digital! You will surely believe me but I am still amazed after all those years.

Now, I plead guilty and do not carry it with me all the time. I mainly use a metered prism (PME45) and this is also very, very convenient. Besides, having reached the "age of reading glasses" I cannot use a Hasselblad 500 without a magnifying prism anymore. 

All the best to you :B
Etienne

[MGrayson]

This is some epic thread drift. Wrong ISO setting => Incident light meter. (I shoot landscape/architecture, so a Pentax Spotmeter was my poison...).

[SrMi]

Guys, OK, thank you for all the advice.  I have the grey card, but did not think to use it.  For "A" (aperture) priority I just set the aperture and let the camera do the rest as I do on a Leica.  Maybe it does not translate well from German to Swedish.  ;o)  This is why I was perplexed, in each case the camera was doing the number crunching.  I figure it is smarter than I, today.  I am hopeful for tomorrow.

Light meters!?  Light meters!?  Man, you gotta be kidding.  ;o)  I thought I gave them up with the old Sekoniks.  Woo, just checked their prices.  They go up there to the sky.  Let me see what meters go for, especially what you have advised.  Man, I won't be a pro but I can look like one.  LOL

Thank you all for the feedback.

Later:  OK, alternatives to the Minolta if I must?  I will bite the bullet and get a meter.  In for a penny in for a pound.

Based on your post, you do not need a light meter but a better understanding of how to expose your images properly. 
Most pros do not use light meters but histograms to expose optimally with digital cameras.