Image Variance Between Aperture Priority and Full Auto

[etn]

This is some epic thread drift. Wrong ISO setting => Incident light meter. (I shoot landscape/architecture, so a Pentax Spotmeter was my poison...).

We are just advertising "back to the basics" 

[jscottyk]

Lots of good ideas here. I'll add one more recommendation; an add-on for an iPhone.

Lumu Light Meter
https://lu.mu/

I still have a Minolta Flash Meter V, and Pentax Spot meter in my kit, but for general purposes and just walking around, the Lumu is handy, and accurate.

[boojum]

Lots of good ideas here. I'll add one more recommendation; an add-on for an iPhone.

Lumu Light Meter
https://lu.mu/

I still have a Minolta Flash Meter V, and Pentax Spot meter in my kit, but for general purposes and just walking around, the Lumu is handy, and accurate.

Can you guys read my mind?  I was wondering about a cell phone light meter.  It has the electronics for the job and some good code would make it possible but could it work well?  You have answered that for me.  Anyway, it is cheap to use.  Yeah, blow ~$12K on a camera and then pinch pennies on a light meter.  Who says I have to be rational?  I will try the LUMU if it is on the Android platform.  Thanks.

Hey, I just checked and I have the Lite version on my phone already, installed last night but unused yet.  OK, I will dick around with it and if I like it will go for the big US$5.99.  LMAO, really, the price of a couple of cups of coffee.  Am I alone in this nuttiness?

[Dicky]

Hi SrMi
Cant think of any professionals, in this industry ...
That can light with flash "exquisitely" to 1/10th stop-accuracy and dont use light (flash-meters)

Hi etn 
The basics ... otherwise, it can be a case of "all the gear and no idea"

Best wishes

[jscottyk]

Even if you get a handheld meter of any sort, as others have mentioned, go back to the basics of exposure and metering. Even in these latest/greatest sensors&computer we call cameras, the basics still apply. Make sure you understand how reflective and incident light meters work. 

Have you checked the setting for your Exposure Metering? Regardless of its setting, when you go to Full Auto,  "the metering method is Centre Weighted" (see page 48 of the user manual). Maybe when you were in Aperture Priority the Exposure Metering was set to Spot or Center Spot?

[SrMi]

Hi SrMi
Cant think of any professionals, in this industry ...
That can light with flash "exquisitely" to 1/10th stop-accuracy and dont use light (flash-meters)

Hi etn 
The basics ... otherwise, it can be a case of "all the gear and no idea"

Best wishes

What does metering 1/10th stop-accuracy mean? Does it mean that an image does not need brightness adjustment? This criterion may be necessary for JPG files. Still, I do not think it matters for raw files and is often undesirable as it can introduce clipping or unnecessary shadow noise.

I have yet to see a professional/enthusiast landscape or wildlife photographer, who works with a digital camera, use a light meter.

[boojum]

Even if you get a handheld meter of any sort, as others have mentioned, go back to the basics of exposure and metering. Even in these latest/greatest sensors&computer we call cameras, the basics still apply. Make sure you understand how reflective and incident light meters work. 

Have you checked the setting for your Exposure Metering? Regardless of its setting, when you go to Full Auto,  "the metering method is Centre Weighted" (see page 48 of the user manual). Maybe when you were in Aperture Priority the Exposure Metering was set to Spot or Center Spot?

I grant that I am still way beyond my depth with this camera.  I know that on full auto the focusing spot is small while on aperture priority it is large.  And yes, full auto is exposure center-weighted.  And while I admit that full auto is a total surrender to the camera's computer, in side by side with Program I get a "richer", slightly darker photo which, to me, is a better photo.  Does this relegate me to a $12k point-and-shoot?  In a way it does.  Can I do nearly as well with a cell phone? Yes.  But if I want the flat out best color and finest detail/quality of image the choice is simple, gotta go with Gothenburg's finest.

I am just an amateur in the purest sense, I do this for the love of it.  I started over 70 years ago with the tiny Kodak box Brownie, this guy: https://12.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/retonthenet/images/vintage-box-camera-bakelite-kodak-baby-brownie-special-eastman-rochester-new-york-1939-54-art-deco-8025-p.jpg?w=1000&h=966&v=1572021-185730   Unable to cure the addiction I was developing and printing my childish work,  And after these 70+ years I have not gotten a helluva lot better but I still enjoy it just as much.  The X2D is the culmination of a long desire that started when I first saw the gorgeous 500C.  That was a masterpiece of industrial design, and still is.  But I just do not have the patience for film anymore.  And I am old enough I could die before the film came back from the processor.  ;o)

The past few years have been Leica and at "A" it, too, is a glorified point-and-shoot.  The old M9 with a Cooke Amotal have been very good to me rescuing the marginal with the magic the two do together to light.  And I was thinking about an M11 when I saw the X2D and the difference is both obvious and great.  The folks in Wetzlar were left in the dust in that contest.  Who wants to read yesterday's papers?

In summation I am a hack having fun travelling first class.  That means I am likely to improve, or hopefully anyway.  And I am grateful for the help from you folks who can use one of these funny mechanical boxes to pay the mortgage.  Thank you for your kindness, generosity and knowledge so freely shared.

[boojum]

Hi SrMi
Cant think of any professionals, in this industry ...
That can light with flash "exquisitely" to 1/10th stop-accuracy and dont use light (flash-meters)

Hi etn 
The basics ... otherwise, it can be a case of "all the gear and no idea"

Best wishes

<snip>

I have yet to see a professional/enthusiast landscape or wildlife photographer, who works with a digital camera, use a light meter.

Interesting observation.  I will dick around with the cellphone light meter.  On the practical and pragmatic leg the built-in meter is 1) easier and, 2) designed by Hasselblad to work with just one camera, the one it is on.

This X2D is fun and can almost make me look good.  ;o)

[SrMi]

I grant that I am still way beyond my depth with this camera.  I know that on full auto the focusing spot is small while on aperture priority it is large. 

I do not observe that. The focus point stays the same size when switching between A and P modes.

And yes, full auto is exposure center-weighted. 

I do not observe that, either. In P mode, the metering can be also specified by the user.

<snip>

In summation I am a hack having fun travelling first class.  That means I am likely to improve, or hopefully anyway.  And I am grateful for the help from you folks who can use one of these funny mechanical boxes to pay the mortgage.  Thank you for your kindness, generosity and knowledge so freely shared.

Enjoy the ride .

[MGrayson]

Hi SrMi
Cant think of any professionals, in this industry ...
That can light with flash "exquisitely" to 1/10th stop-accuracy and dont use light (flash-meters)

Hi etn 
The basics ... otherwise, it can be a case of "all the gear and no idea"

Best wishes

What does metering 1/10th stop-accuracy mean? Does it mean that an image does not need brightness adjustment? This criterion may be necessary for JPG files. Still, I do not think it matters for raw files and is often undesirable as it can introduce clipping or unnecessary shadow noise.

I have yet to see a professional/enthusiast landscape or wildlife photographer, who works with a digital camera, use a light meter.

The need for 1/10 stop accuracy is not for lighting an entire scene, but for different lights illuminating the scene in different ways. To simplify: Suppose you're lighting both sides of the model's face with different lights. If you were painting, you'd want exact control of the relative tones. So you set one flash at f/8 - but then you might want the other to be 20% of the way between f/4 and f/5.6. But then you want the object on the table to get *this* kind of light. So having a flash meter to tell you exactly how much of each strobe is illuminating each surface is basically necessary.

(I do landscape/architecture, and don't use strobes or a light meter.)

[jscottyk]

I am just an amateur in the purest sense, I do this for the love of it.

Nothing wrong with that at all. And there is nothing wrong with using the best gear you can regardless of your level of experience.

Check out this link that discusses the differences in metering types.
https://mastinlabs.com/blogs/photoism/spot-metering-vs-ambient-metering

The in-camera meter is reflective and as such uses a middle reference. Check out this wiki article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_card

The processing power of modern cameras can help make sense of "multiple" measurement points, but in the end, reflective meters are really pretty "dumb" instruments and "think" the world is all the same with regards to the percent of the light that is reflecting off objects. Problems arise when the scene skew beyond the middle reference.

With digital cameras, I typically use the in-camera metering and histograms (live when available, raw is possible, and from the jpeg if that's all that is possible) but do think it's easier to understand the histogram if one understands how that data relates to the meter.

[boojum]

I am just an amateur in the purest sense, I do this for the love of it.

Nothing wrong with that at all. And there is nothing wrong with using the best gear you can regardless of your level of experience.

Check out this link that discusses the differences in metering types.
https://mastinlabs.com/blogs/photoism/spot-metering-vs-ambient-metering

The in-camera meter is reflective and as such uses a middle reference. Check out this wiki article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_card

The processing power of modern cameras can help make sense of "multiple" measurement points, but in the end, reflective meters are really pretty "dumb" instruments and "think" the world is all the same with regards to the percent of the light that is reflecting off objects. Problems arise when the scene skew beyond the middle reference.

With digital cameras, I typically use the in-camera metering and histograms (live when available, raw is possible, and from the jpeg if that's all that is possible) but do think it's easier to understand the histogram if one understands how that data relates to the meter.

You guys are taking me to school.  Thanks for that.  If you can't teach an old dog new tricks you couldn't teach him much when he was a pup.  ;o)  The light meters seem the way to go for the most accurate exposure but it seems that the in-camera reflective meter is the one preferred if only for convenience.

In shooting with the Leicas it is simply set it to aperture priority and fire away.  The X2D has so many more options and modifications to options that I will be thrashing my way through what is on this board, what is in the manual, what is on YT and what I can get from the Matt Granger on-line course.  It will be exciting and challenging and fortunately the camera is smart enough that I can get lucky now and again along the way.  This is turning into a group effort.  ;o)

[Dicky]

Bless you SrMi 

Perhaps one of us must feel such a grumble n grunt for being a studio-photographer then!
And still even, using an old-school light-meter to obtain exquisite lighting-results with flash-units in this modern day and age!
Must be totally 'outrageous behaviour' on my behalf ...

Wishing you all the very best with your professional-landscapes and urbanscapes!
Please dont be shy, can imagine that many others would love to see your stunning XD2 results in the gallery ...
Best wishes

[SrMi]

Hi SrMi
Cant think of any professionals, in this industry ...
That can light with flash "exquisitely" to 1/10th stop-accuracy and dont use light (flash-meters)

Hi etn 
The basics ... otherwise, it can be a case of "all the gear and no idea"

Best wishes

What does metering 1/10th stop-accuracy mean? Does it mean that an image does not need brightness adjustment? This criterion may be necessary for JPG files. Still, I do not think it matters for raw files and is often undesirable as it can introduce clipping or unnecessary shadow noise.

I have yet to see a professional/enthusiast landscape or wildlife photographer, who works with a digital camera, use a light meter.

The need for 1/10 stop accuracy is not for lighting an entire scene, but for different lights illuminating the scene in different ways. To simplify: Suppose you're lighting both sides of the model's face with different lights. If you were painting, you'd want exact control of the relative tones. So you set one flash at f/8 - but then you might want the other to be 20% of the way between f/4 and f/5.6. But then you want the object on the table to get *this* kind of light. So having a flash meter to tell you exactly how much of each strobe is illuminating each surface is basically necessary.

(I do landscape/architecture, and don't use strobes or a light meter.)

Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense to me.

[Dicky]

Hi SrMi 

Just to clarify the 1/10th stop-fetish ...

Have found that if the image subject is lit with a decent light-signature, which is correctly metered to 1/10th ... in a studio flash-application with grey-card ...
Most often, the tethered capture images dont need any Post-Production adjustment(s) and its usually spot-on "in-camera" seriously

Theres alot to be said for some of the 'old school methods' too,
As they also permit you to take very fast, very accurate, mutliple-independent-readings, of multiple light-sources, assess and then apply the settings in just a matter of seconds. So can use a fast-paced workflow ...
Perhaps having used film for so very long, some habits are hard to quit ...

Best wishes