.3F .fff

[ALAIN]

Good morning,

Capture One being excluded for Hasselblad, I tested the software
"Dxo Photolab 7"
From my tests of the trial version, it accepts Hasselblad files, but in .3F (direct import, without going through Phocus) and does not accept .fff (import by Phocus). It also has the advantage (compared to LR and C1) of not having to manage catalogs and synchronizations, which makes my hair stand on end!
As for the Leica M11 files, the quality is much higher than LR. I think we are at C1 level. I have to test on the .3F...

Hence a question (before leaving for Dxo without going through Phocus):
- at what point in the flow is the famous Hasselblad Natural Color Solution (HNCS) technology taken into account?
in other words :
- is it in action directly in the boxes H5, X1DII and X2D, or does it only occur during demosaicing in Phocus, or through another software?
and to remove another doubt:
- what exactly is a .fff file (resulting from the import by Phocus and weighing approximately 20% less than a .3F)?

All of this is important when choosing a workflow and development software.

Thank you in advance for your insights.

Alain (from France)

[MGrayson]

PS opens .FFF files fine (I just tried it).

You don't HAVE to use the cataloging features of either C1 or LR. Editing information has to be stored *somehwere*, though, so how does DXO do it? In LR, import by "Add". C1 will also edit in place. Again, I don't know how you plan to handle image cataloging and associated editing information.

If you care about HNCS, use Phocus. I don't see a difference (in my work) between Phocus and LR (with the Camera Standard Profile), but it is there, especially on some lens corrections.

Matt

[tenmangu81]

Good morning,

[.....]

Hence a question (before leaving for Dxo without going through Phocus):
- at what point in the flow is the famous Hasselblad Natural Color Solution (HNCS) technology taken into account?
in other words :
- is it in action directly in the boxes H5, X1DII and X2D, or does it only occur during demosaicing in Phocus, or through another software?
and to remove another doubt:
- what exactly is a .fff file (resulting from the import by Phocus and weighing approximately 20% less than a .3F)?

All of this is important when choosing a workflow and development software.

Thank you in advance for your insights.

Alain (from France)

Hi Alain,

I know Lightroom (hence Photoshop) and of course Phocus allow to keep the HNCS colours. I won't trust the DxO demosaicing as far as HNCS colours are concerned. The profile for each Hasselblad camera is done at the factory/control level, and the HNCS is only correctly understood by appropriated softwares, i.e. Phocus and LR/PS, according to Hasselblad. Nothing is said about other softwares, but I would be sceptical...

.fff files are lossless compressed files of the .3FR.

As said by Matt, LR and Phocus give the same colours, as seen from my eyes on my calibrated display and by the eyedropper, provided you use the "camera standard" profile in LR. The lens corrections are better with Phocus, however.
I have tried once to open Hasselblad files with DxO, but I didn't like the colours. Not as subtle as with Phocus (or LR). In my opinion, DxO is a very good software for people who need a sort of automatic processing in order to get an acceptable result in the minimum time.

[ALAIN]

Thank you, thank you very much !

With all this, if I understand correctly, the HNCS operates both in the case and in Phocus, LR and PS.

In this case, I abandon Dxo (even if it can store the development information in a file pasted to the raw file and even if it would have allowed me to develop the photos of the X2D and those of the M11 with the same software) benefit from
- Phocus for the X2D, or LR after import with Phocus
and
- LR for the M11 (continuing for LR with the management of the essential catalog

Best regards,

Alain (from France)

[tenmangu81]

Lightroom and Photoshop can open the .3FR files, if you really don't want to go through Phocus.....

[o2mpx]

I seem to recall if Phocus is used initially to retain HNCS, and if subsequent edits are desired in another editor, export from Phocus has to be in TIFF format as DNG exports from Phocus doesn't retain the color/lens adjustments?

If that's the workflow, not sure if the TIFF file sizes might be larger than the 3f files.

[tenmangu81]

Adjustments made in Phocus are not kept when going to an other software, except if you export the image as a TIFF, which is far larger than the .3FR or the .fff. And a TIFF is not as flexible as a RAW for processing. So, the solution adopted by many people (not me !!) is to make all the adjustments in Phocus, export as a TIFF for any extra editing in Photoshop, and print (or convert into a jpeg for web uses).

[ALAIN]

(not me !!)...
But then... but then... what is your favorite workflow?

[tenmangu81]

I use only Lightroom (and Photoshop when needed) fot all my files (Canon, Leica, Hasselblad, films,...), after having been a convinced Capture One user for years. It is compulsory to use the "camera standard profile" in Lightroom if you want to keep HNCS colours.

[Georg Kovalcik]

I know Lightroom (hence Photoshop) and of course Phocus allow to keep the HNCS colours. ...

Adobe uses plain dcp camera profiles for Hasselblad like it does for other cameras. No HNCS. HNCS is only implemented in Phocus. There is zero evidence that Adobe would use HCNS (and Adobe nowhere claims they do).

[fcarucci]

I seem to recall if Phocus is used initially to retain HNCS, and if subsequent edits are desired in another editor, export from Phocus has to be in TIFF format as DNG exports from Phocus doesn't retain the color/lens adjustments?

If that's the workflow, not sure if the TIFF file sizes might be larger than the 3f files.

This is my workflow for critical flow and the resulting TIFF files are pretty huge.

[tenmangu81]

I know Lightroom (hence Photoshop) and of course Phocus allow to keep the HNCS colours. ...

Adobe uses plain dcp camera profiles for Hasselblad like it does for other cameras. No HNCS. HNCS is only implemented in Phocus. There is zero evidence that Adobe would use HCNS (and Adobe nowhere claims they do).

Excerpt from the Phocus users manual:

Hasselblad raw files can also be processed with other selected software applications, namely, Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom and Apple Aperture. Note, however, that using Phocus is the most comprehensive method. The Phocus and Adobe methods can produce almost identical results (in most cases) regarding RAW conversion so it is a matter of personal choice regarding which method would best suit your preferred workflow. Alternatively you can use Apple Aperture though you should take note that the benefits of DAC and HNCS etc, will be lost in this case. Please check the Phocus Read-Me and our web page for updated information.

[Georg Kovalcik]

Yes. It definitely does not say that Lightroom uses HCNS. (If it did colour would always be identical not ,,in most cases")

[viking]

In the past (with X1D II) I would go through Phocus, then export as TIFF into DXO PL6, it worked mostly OK, only problem would be at times a small number of pictures would not be recognized, message  'the camera not recognized by the software' (you don't get any picture at all to work on) but very few, also no advanced denoising, still quite happy with the results. Now, with X2D and DXO PL7 different story, if I process initially in Phocus, up to a third of the pictures will have the 'camera not recognized' message. DXO came back saying you should use only .3fr ... I now use mostly DXO PL 7 directly, as I like the denoising functions a lot - and I am familiar with the software. Will occasionally also process in Phocus, my old eyes cannot tell the difference after processing to taste. In DXO PL 7, under 'Colour/Rendering' you have the option to apply DXO camera profile (X2D) - I use that a lot. But YMMV

[tenmangu81]

Yes. It definitely does not say that Lightroom uses HCNS. (If it did colour would always be identical not ,,in most cases")

Agree. It only says that HNCS benefits are lost with Aperture.....which can be understood, in the context, that Adobe softwares take into account HNCS.
Anyway, I have read many times that Hasselblad had a deal with Adobe in order to work together and Hasselblad shared with them parts of their colour code.

More practically, I haven't been able to find any difference in colours between images I developed with Phocus and with Lightroom. They are identical to my eyes. In addition, I have made some colours measurements using a colour target : the RGB values of colour patches as measured with an eyedropper were the same. In practical life, the "in most cases" covers all MY cases. Maybe people doing packshots or art work reproduction would be more demanding than I am and could find a difference.