Is there a practical Tilt/Shift solution?

[David Mantripp]

I know there have been more than a few threads on this topic, but I would like to see if there is a consensus to the question "is there a genuinely practical tilt/shift solution for X cameras?".

There seems to be a sort of semi-official solution, which is to use an HTS adapter on an HX adapter, or better, converter, with an HCD 28mm lens. Some seem to report that this works very well, although there's a lot more talk about shift than tilt (I'm more interested in manipulating DoF than perspective. Perspective I can do in post).  Others seem to warn about physical limitations and significant issues in software.  There also appears to be a consensus that the only good HCD 28mm is an orange dot HCD 28mm, which escalates the cost to near-ridiculous.

Then there are the various third party t/s adapters, Fotodiox, Novoflex and the like Various people have talked about "testing" these, but I'm more interested in practical day to day use in the field.

So is there a practical, real world, out of the lab solution, or is the solution to buy a Canon and a selection of their fine T/S lenses? Or is HTS the path to enlightenment?

[ashdown]

I haven't been been using the HTS for long but am really enjoying it. When used on the H bodies the data is passed through for use in lens adjustments however this doesn't happen for the X mount cameras. This is a gain for the H rather than a loss for the X as no other tilt shift system on any other camera has this ability.

As far as the X system is concerned it is the only way to get movements without having to use the e shutter. The Hasselblad documents for the HTS say that it is compatible with the HCD 24mm lens as well as the 28mm (and longer primes up to 100mm) although I haven't had the opportunity to try it. It is also compatible with the 0.8 XH converter.

Hopefully they will one day bring out an X mount version but the market may be just too small.

[brian]

I have also been looking for a tilt-shift solution to the X cameras - for many years.

The HTS works well on the H cameras but you need a truck to carry around everything for the X cameras - not practical.

My compromise is to use the 21mm XCD lens and make corrections in photoshop. I do not consider this to be an optimal solution since it produces distortions of pixels.

I have been asking why Hasselblad does not come up with a HTS for the X lenses - but I am not aware of any movement on this issue.

I look forward to anyone who has come up with a practical solution to this issue.

[David Mantripp]

@steve - just to be clear, you do not have any physical problems using the HTS on an X body? No movement restrictions?

@brian - that (21mm) works reasonably well for perspective (shift) but not at all for tilt. With the shallow DoF of the system, there would be a lot of benefit from have tilt movements.

I guess that since anyway autofocus is of little use here, orange dot H lenses are not essential....

[SeanRL]

Interested to hear why you don't focus stack instead of tilt for your application?

S

[Michael H. Cothran]

Wanting tilt is the big issue here. I shot a lot of 4x5 film back in the day, and used tilt more often than not - albeit more rear than front tilt. But in digital, I have never had the need for tilt on the TS lenses I have experienced. However, there is no good solution for neither tilt nor shift with an X camera. As you stated, modifying an HTS system to the X camera is mighty expensive, plus extremely difficult if trying to purchase used. 35mm TS lenses will require the dreaded electronic shutter plus yield vignetting.

My personal solution - I bought a used Nikon D850 (46 mega pixels) and the newest Nikkor 24mm/f3.5 PC-E (TS) lens. Total investment in "like-new" condition - $3800 US. It renders beautiful images, and very large files with stitching. I have never found a need for the tilt action though. At 24mm focal length, I doubt too much tilt would ever be required.

[ashdown]

@steve - just to be clear, you do not have any physical problems using the HTS on an X body? No movement restrictions?

The main problem I found was that the length of the adapter means there is quite a lot of stuff hanging off the front of the camera. There is no tripod mount on the HTS (the included extender is to go under the camera) and it clashes with the tripod collar. I have been looking for a different collar that has a shorter foot but have found the Leofoto VR150 lens support that both helps to centralise the weight over the tripod and also provide a support under the front of the XH adapter. There is noticeably less flex when using this.

[pdprinter]

I am also interested in a (tilt) shift solution for wide angle for landscape and architectural subjects. I definitely do not like such a Rube Goldberg contraption with 2 additional lens systems with a factor of 1.5 and then 0.8 (combined 1.2x). I am also using large format 5x7 with lenses which have large enough image circles and that system is easy to use with film but I would like a digital version which obviously requires much more precision. I have seen different Swebo models which would likely work well with XCDs and 907X at a low price point (~1K) but finding a good lens may be more challenging.

[David Mantripp]

Interested to hear why you don't focus stack instead of tilt for your application?

S

Sean, focus stacking works if you are keeping the plane of focus aligned with the sensor. But (and I'm happy to be corrected) it cannot help if you want to move the plane of focus.  Doing that you have much more creative control, and you can in some circumstances obtain apparent front to back in-focus at apertures as low as f/8 - or less.

Also, focus stacking post processing can be tedious!  Having said that, some things can be achieved with stacking that cannot be done with tilt. They're different tools.

[Conner999]

As an FYI: Orange dot lenses are optically IDENTICAL to their orange-challenged siblings. Same optics, coatings, everything - save the shutter and ROM capacity for the needed AF firmware. If you can live with MF & 1/800 sync on the X series, save the significant $.

The HTS works very, very well. It's solid, well made and puts 35mm TS systems to shame w/it's mechanics. It's also the only game in town (barring some 35mm adapted kit using the slow e-shutter) until such time Hassy creates an X version.

The XH0.8 is also fantastic. Love ours. It opens things up by 2/3 EV and improves lens performance across the board, especially outside center. It's a 'lift and tuck' for lens MTFs. It also gives any lens on the X the same FoV as that lens mounted on a large-sensor 100CMOS or 60CCD back. Hassy has various PDFs that give all the gory details. It will help negate some of the 1.5x factor of the HTS.

The biggest issue with the HTS and X is you need not only it, but an adapter - dumb or 0.8. This puts the weight say 3" out from the lens mount, unless you use the tripod collar for the adapters. The latter requires the foot be modified as it can get in the way of the tilt mechanics - or a new collar found.

Or you can be like Peter Coulson and use an X+XH0.8+HTS+HC300 for some nice portraits (using the foot on the lens to shift the HTS & camera vs. the lens).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzU9h1I_uCE. (about 7:30 min in)

We used the HTS on our now departed GFX before we sadly sold the HTS (dumb move). It had the same issue with its GFX-H adapter collar foot and we had to shorten the foot to get it to clear.  The link below to our Ad for that setup has photos of the modification.   


http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=8649.0

[MGrayson]

Interested to hear why you don't focus stack instead of tilt for your application?

S

Sean, focus stacking works if you are keeping the plane of focus aligned with the sensor. But (and I'm happy to be corrected) it cannot help if you want to move the plane of focus.  Doing that you have much more creative control, and you can in some circumstances obtain apparent front to back in-focus at apertures as low as f/8 - or less.

Also, focus stacking post processing can be tedious!  Having said that, some things can be achieved with stacking that cannot be done with tilt. They're different tools.

Actually, focus stacking works with a tilted sensor. The in-focus regions are wedges, but they match up just as well as the parallel focus stacks do. Th near-focus plane is just tilted more than the far one. Make sure that what you want in focus is in-between the two planes, and the rest is the same as ordinary focus stacking.

[David Mantripp]

Interested to hear why you don't focus stack instead of tilt for your application?

S

Sean, focus stacking works if you are keeping the plane of focus aligned with the sensor. But (and I'm happy to be corrected) it cannot help if you want to move the plane of focus.  Doing that you have much more creative control, and you can in some circumstances obtain apparent front to back in-focus at apertures as low as f/8 - or less.

Also, focus stacking post processing can be tedious!  Having said that, some things can be achieved with stacking that cannot be done with tilt. They're different tools.

Actually, focus stacking works with a tilted sensor. The in-focus regions are wedges, but they match up just as well as the parallel focus stacks do. Th near-focus plane is just tilted more than the far one. Make sure that what you want in focus is in-between the two planes, and the rest is the same as ordinary focus stacking.

Hmm, interesting. I'll have get my head around it and experiment with that.  Thanks!

[Alex]

One of the valuable things I find with Tilt over Stacking is in situations where the composition contains overlayed elements positioned at different depths of focus: When stacking 'focused slithers', one all too often experiences haloes at the points where elements of differing depth intersect; the time required to retouch these issues is often longer than setting the parameters of the required tlit where such issues aren't present.

Due to the light weight of the X1D's/907 I'm somewhat intrigued as to how things would go if one were to move the tripod affixing point to the HTS itself and 'hang' the body off it resulting in the body that tilts whilst the lens remains static..

[Bobby1]

I have often thought the Cambo Actus with the XCD adaptor, would provide a slightly limited, but practical solution for tilt and shift for any XCD camera body. Choosing and researching appropriate lenses for your needs would need some careful thought. This set up is not excessively big and could be a cost effective solution. Sadly I have no experience with this system, but others may be able to help with this.

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-xcd-view-camera/

[doc steel]

if you can live with limited shifting movements you can use either a Nikon or Canon TS lens with adapter (Novoflex...).
You can do that because the native image circle of a TS-lens with i.e. 28mm is much larger than the i.c. of a non TS-lens with 28mm.