"XH CONVERTER 0.8" and V lenses

[dece]

In the "XH CONVERTER 0.8" datasheet
https://cdn.hasselblad.com/datasheets/XH_Converter_0_8/1.0.0.0/XH-Converter-0-8-Datasheet.pdf
They are including data for V lenses!! e.g. CF80 @ f/2.2 !
Does this mean that "XH CONVERTER 0.8" is compatible with the H (to V) "CF Adapter" ?

That would be great = a way to use V lenses on X system with their native shutter (no crappy e-shutter) + with their almost "native" view angle + higher aperture!

... In fact: yes and no!, still in the datasheet, I see:
"The CF Lens Adapter (requires the electronic shutter function) gives access to all V System lenses"
So yes it was with the expensive CF Adapter, but without the ability to use its normal / full function of providing sync to V-lenses shutter? Just as a dumb mechanical adapter?

... I know, the camera has ~no way of knowing what the lens speed would be, but like on CFV digital backs; that was easily resolved by just setting the back scanning time / "speed" to a value longer than the selected speed on the lens.
One could imagine setting the X e-shutter to a slower speed than the V lense shutter, then pressing the shutter button would trigger the cocked V lense shutter via the 0.8x & stacked CF adapter!
(but then one would still have the slow e-shutter readout problems!? = using the lens shutter would be useless? btw how is the sensor "reading" a regular XCD lens exposure: global reset progressive scan readout?)

Could someone who already has H "CF Adapter" + V-lenses and buy this 0.8x for its X/907 tell us?
I don't want to blindly buy a very expensive "CF Adapter" + this new 0.8x converter if I cannot fully use my V-lenses on my X1D, as I don't have any H lenses to adapt (and as I could use my V-lenses via my 500C/M + CCD CFV-50).
Full V-lens function on the X-system would be really cool.

[ashdown]

The CF adapter needs a PC socket to fire the shutter which the X1D doesn't have. You may be able to fir it from an adapter connected to the hotshot though.

[dece]

Doesn't the "CF Adapter" cable connects to the lens (not the camera) ?



but why? to pass the flash sync back to the body? (not to release the lens shutter??)

Too bad I could not find a video about how to use this adapter

[JCM-Photos]

sensor scan duration isn't like a shutter speed it's a fixed sensor feature that can not be adjusted.
In e-shutter modus it's always 1/30s for the 50c sensor, scanning multiple times when shutter speed is longer and making a shorter image acquisition with the same 1/30s scanning time for all shorter exposures.

Thats why it is not possible to use short leaf shutter speeds in e-shutter modus, you would only expose a small part of the sensor.

In "normal" leaf shutter modus short exposures  are made prior to the 1/30s sensor scan, but this needs a sync
between both.
With digital cameras this sync is made with electrical contacts between lens and body
with "analog" cameras and digital back the sync is made with the flash sync cable between lens and digital back.
with the V system cameras and CFV back, the sync is made mechanically by using the bodies sync pin that made in the past the sync between body and film backs.

Edit: Thank you for correcting my typo, readout time is indeed 1/3 s

[dece]

sensor scan duration isn't like a shutter speed it's a fixed sensor feature that can not be adjusted.
In e-shutter modus it's always 1/30s for the 50c sensor, scanning multiple times when shutter speed is longer and making a shorter image acquisition with the same 1/30s scanning time for all shorter exposures.
...

1/30sec = (33ms), that's not too bad! Wasn't the X1D's Sony IMX161 sensor e-shutter "readout" time supposed to be 200ms? (= 1/5sec)
From the deformations I got using e-shutter 'looks more like 1/5sec than 1/30s ?
Or 33ms is for different readout mode (when using XCD leaf shutter), not the e-shutter mode?

btw I cannot find the data sheet for IMX161 (looks like Sony has no "archive" of datasheet for sensors older than 2 years)

I still cannot understand how a non global readout (rolling) could allow exposure of the whole sensor over any mechanical shutter that has a speed faster than the readout/scan time!?
... https://www.vision-camera.nl/FAQ-ROLLING-VS-GLOBAL-SHUTTER ...
Ok, you could replace last figure "time of" strobe flash by time of mechanical shutter and then eureka!
So using a mechanical shutter opening right after last line acquisition starts and closing before first line acquisition ends should give a "time homogeneous" full exposure. The problem is how to sync all that

Yes it's great with the CFV sensors on 50x bodies: no need for any cable.
(I still hope that Hasselblad will produce a CFV with a bigger "~real 645" sensor - 53.4 x 40 mm - e.g. with IMX211 = just a CFV version of their "H6D-100c Digital Back")

[dece]

I've registered to "XH Converter 0.8" Hasselblad webinar (Thursday Nov. 19 10AM EST / 16:00 CET); I'll ask there how to use V-lenses over 0.8 converter + CF adapter.


https://www.hasselblad.com/events/webinar---xh-adapter-08-and-firmware-update-1.4.0-online-2020-11-19?utm_source=Hasselblad+End+Users&utm_campaign=96155203f1-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_16_04_01_COPY_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_16f5cb481a-96155203f1-350108373

[ashdown]

Doesn't the "CF Adapter" cable connects to the lens (not the camera) ?

but why? to pass the flash sync back to the body? (not to release the lens shutter??)

Too bad I could not find a video about how to use this adapter

You're quite right, I apologise. It is connecting the adapter (and camera) to the shutter in the lens. I'd guess though if you have the e-shutter selected then it won't trigger the leaf shutter just as it wouldn't with an XCD or HC lens.

[dece]

...
You're quite right, I apologise. It is connecting the adapter (and camera) to the shutter in the lens. I'd guess though if you have the e-shutter selected then it won't trigger the leaf shutter just as it wouldn't with an XCD or HC lens.

Yes, that's why Hasselblad saying "The CF Lens Adapter (requires the electronic shutter function) gives access to all V System lenses" means it's not gonna work with the V leaf shutter.

But even if it's not working right now, it might be doable via future firmware upgrades!? (wishful thinking )

If everything is there, mechanically and "connectivelly", then it's just a question of software.
There should be synchronisation to release the V shutter at the right time (after X rolling shutter last line acquisition starts = after sensor reset + sensor readout time) and keeping the sensor reading long enough; exactly like what the X is doing with regular XCD lenses!?
Moreover as V lenses were fully usable on the H system via this "CF adapter", it doesn't look unthinkable to have them fully working on the X/907s.

[dece]

... At the "XH Converter 0.8" Hasselblad webinar, there was no demo / talk about 0.8x + CF adapter + V lenses. I asked the question (chat) if V leaf shutter could be used, they replied not for the moment, e-shutter only ...
(I still hope that it might come on day in a firmware update )

[Photon42]

(I still hope that it might come on day in a firmware update )

That will of course never happen. How would you trigger and cock the V-Lens-Shutter just by a FW update. An adapter for V-Lenses or others with an included leaf shutter would be cool.

[dece]

(I still hope that it might come on day in a firmware update )

That will of course never happen. How would you trigger and cock the V-Lens-Shutter just by a FW update. An adapter for V-Lenses or others with an included leaf shutter would be cool.

I was talking about XH adapter / converter + CF adapter (for H system) that has a mechanical cocking mechanism ...

[JCM-Photos]

X1D bodies have no sensor sync device or sync possibility for non X or H lenses.
When lenses are not H or X type, only electronic shutter works.

CFVII-50c backs have:
a sensor sync device when coupled to V system camera or V system devices
a sensor sync possibility trough lens flash sync cable for non V system.

this enables the use of lens leaf shutter when the lens has a mechanical cocking device (trough film advance crank on V system cameras or manual cocking on non V system cameras)

[dece]

X1D bodies have no sensor sync device or sync possibility for non X or H lenses.
When lenses are not H or X type, only electronic shutter works.

CFVII-50c backs have:
a sensor sync device when coupled to V system camera or V system devices
a sensor sync possibility trough lens flash sync cable for non V system.

this enables the use of lens leaf shutter when the lens has a mechanical cocking device (trough film advance crank on V system cameras or manual cocking on non V system cameras)

Yes with X1D it's not possible, with CFV-50c + V camera body & lenses, you have to use F or B "speed" IF you want live view but then you cannot use the leaf shutter! (you can use the leaf shutter only if in "classical" V-body "mode" focusing with the waist level finder)
With CFV50c + 907x + XH adapter or 0.8x converter + H CF Adapter (has even a cocking mechanism for the V lens) + V lens; "philosophically" this could allow leaf shutter usage but Hasselblad said e-shutter only...

Funnily with a Cambo https://www.cambo.com/en/wide-rs-series/wrc-hvsa/ WRC-HVSA you could have a cfv-50c, live view and full use of V lens shutter!
If an external company can provide that why not Hasselblad!?
Hasselblad should provide a 907V (with a mechanical cocking mechanism) that directly accept V lenses (this way you "bypass" the mirror of the V body... and can you live view & use leaf shutter)

[JCM-Photos]

This all ready exists, it is the "Hasselblad Flexbody" the technical V-System camera, that should work like a V-system body with the digital CFVII-50c back

[dece]

This all ready exists, it is the "Hasselblad Flexbody" the technical V-System camera, that should work like a V-system body with the digital CFVII-50c back

Haven't thought about that! Cool! + it give movements!
thanks! 

Has anybody here some experience with flexbody & a live view back?

Has ever somebody used that handheld? (attached to a grip)

(It's not in production anymore right?) 'looks it's quite rare on ebay ...