Currently HB's website lists 7 new E/V/P lenses with focal length branding marked on the barrel (excluding the 45p), and 10 without focal length branding legacy lenses (including the 45p).

Apart from the 90, understand new models are not direct duplicates in focal lengths, but for those within comparable focal lengths, is there a new lens that's definitively better than the older design?

In other words, if you were the sole decision maker of the lens product line, which of the legacy lenses would you discontinue on the basis that the new model definitively performs better?

It depends on what you mean by better...

Distortion and vignetting are worse on the new designed lenses, and corrected in post. It seems they all have that same more nervous bokeh than the legacy lenses, according to the images I can see (I have no new lens). But AF, weight, sharpness in the center, maximum aperture, focus by wire, functionality are better with the new design.

The legacy lenses are very good and optically hard to beat, but sometimes very difficult to operate. Slow AF (although my 65 is rather quick), heavy, focus by wire not very handy. The rendering is smoother in out of focus area and I like it more.

In fact, even the 45P already has that different rendering as some people reported on this forum. But nobody shared a direct comparison. The closest was a comparison between the XCD 80 and the 90V and with a limited scenario on cropped images or resized. Some shots with the legacy lenses won't display where they shine, and some shots with the new ones will be perfectly fine to my eyes, I should say beautiful! But when that special scenario happens, there is something that I can only describe by a more than real effect with some legacy lenses.

I should add that even seeing Andrew Camera's test of legacy lenses, I thought the 90/3.2 was a weak lens compared to other like the 65 or the 80, but I've recently seen a review with incredible images (and MTF charts show it's a greaaaat lens). Like I already said, with some legacy lenses, even boring shots can be stunning because of how it renders.

Soon, I will be able to compare the images produced by the new 80E, with those I've taken, to see if the same is true with E prime lenses. But no direct comparison again, which limits my understanding of the lens rendering.

No reviewer, to my knowledge, has compared the 90V and the 90 3.2, nor the 45P with the 45 3.5.

To conclude, I should admit that the new lenses produce beautiful images and are easier to work with, but until now, I'm not convinced their optical quality is superior to legacy lenses, although generally sharper in the center. Corners are sacrificed, and distortion and vignetting are high, which does not represent optical perfection to my mind. Is that a problem in real world? I think you don't know if you don't learn to see it (and I don't pretend to see it all, but I can see what is unpleasant to my eyes with the newer lenses). Now I have to see what an E prime lens looks like...

Also, it seems Hasselblad has made a choice not to work with Nittoh anymore, and decided to work with Panasonic to produce the new lenses. So, they need to replace the legacy lenses and they will.

PS: every system/lens is a compromise.

Quote from: niviblad on February 13, 2025, 10:03:03 AMNo reviewer, to my knowledge, has compared the 90V and the 90 3.2, nor the 45P with the 45 3.5.

To conclude, I should admit that the new lenses produce beautiful images and are easier to work with, but until now, I'm not convinced their optical quality is superior to legacy lenses, although generally sharper in the center. Corners are sacrificed, and distortion and vignetting are high, which does not represent optical perfection to my mind. Is that a problem in real world? I think you don't know if you don't learn to see it (and I don't pretend to see it all, but I can see what is unpleasant to my eyes with the newer lenses). Now I have to see what an E prime lens looks like...

Also, it seems Hasselblad has made a choice not to work with Nittoh anymore, and decided to work with Panasonic to produce the new lenses. So, they need to replace the legacy lenses and they will.

PS: every system/lens is a compromise.

Given landscapes are the key focus, new lenses corner compromises aren't favorable trade offs for the lighter weight and faster AF. Actually some lenses are within several grams, for example, the 90mm's. Perhaps the new wide zoom might show promise, since it's a "E" lens, but your point of not seeing any direct comparisons after such a long time is puzzling.

Quote from: niviblad on February 13, 2025, 10:03:03 AMSoon, I will be able to compare the images produced by the new 80E, with those I've taken, to see if the same is true with E prime lenses.

Is 80E the next lens to be announced?

The digital correction of light fall off leads to reduction of the dynamic range by the degree of correction necessary. That means more noise in the shadows at the periphery compared to the center, not a good thing for landscape or architectural, product, closeup, reproduction photography. I don't understand why all lens manufacturer pretend that digital correction is like a free lunch.

I got the 28P in spite of knowing its issue because I think having a not prefect lens with me is better than a superior lens I leave at home because of its bulk and weight.

Quote from: o2mpx on February 13, 2025, 06:23:44 PM

Quote from: niviblad on February 13, 2025, 10:03:03 AMNo reviewer, to my knowledge, has compared the 90V and the 90 3.2, nor the 45P with the 45 3.5.

To conclude, I should admit that the new lenses produce beautiful images and are easier to work with, but until now, I'm not convinced their optical quality is superior to legacy lenses, although generally sharper in the center. Corners are sacrificed, and distortion and vignetting are high, which does not represent optical perfection to my mind. Is that a problem in real world? I think you don't know if you don't learn to see it (and I don't pretend to see it all, but I can see what is unpleasant to my eyes with the newer lenses). Now I have to see what an E prime lens looks like...

Also, it seems Hasselblad has made a choice not to work with Nittoh anymore, and decided to work with Panasonic to produce the new lenses. So, they need to replace the legacy lenses and they will.

PS: every system/lens is a compromise.

Given landscapes are the key focus, new lenses corner compromises aren't favorable trade offs for the lighter weight and faster AF. Actually some lenses are within several grams, for example, the 90mm's. Perhaps the new wide zoom might show promise, since it's a "E" lens, but your point of not seeing any direct comparisons after such a long time is puzzling.

I'm surely a bit unfair towards the new lenses. The 90V is a very very good lens, and not that bad in the corners stopped down a little bit (the vignetting is even more limited than the first 90 stopped down). It's hard to say it's better or worse than the first one... It's different in terms of optical quality and certainly rendering, but both are high quality. It's probably better in terms of handling.

I've found an example to show the difference of rendering, although the 90V is compared to the 80: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CFHmidJOF8&t=390s

I must admit they are very close in this setup, but you'll see the 90V's bokeh is more defined, with a bit more contrast. That's also what produces, I think, the kind of details I don't like where you see even more doubling lines in slightly out of focus areas: https://cdn.hasselblad.com/f/77891/11656x8742/20389379de/julia-trotti-x2d-xcd90v-1.jpg

I've never seen that kind of doubling lines (hair) in the portraits I've shot wide open nor stopped down a bit with the legacy lenses. When I could guess it exists, the transition is smoother enough not to bother me.

Some examples of that "more than real" effect which leave me stunned:

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Job_9026-Pano.jpg

A stunning boring shot...:
https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7520.jpg

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7548.jpg

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7546.jpg

I'll share mine soon...

Quote from: niviblad on February 16, 2025, 02:38:10 AMSome examples of that "more than real" effect which leave me stunned:

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Job_9026-Pano.jpg

A stunning boring shot...:
https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7520.jpg

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7548.jpg

https://www.dearsusan.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Job_7546.jpg

I'll share mine soon...

I just bought the 135 Macro largely on the basis of that review, and bought an 8 year old Olympus Pen F with a pancake wide angle, on the same day. A garage full of tools serves better and more completely than a garage half full of tools. I have some of the V lenses, but the older lenses are my favorites for the reasons you have already given. There are real trade offs, no free lunch.

I dont know...I had a x2d with 30,45,90 first, later added 65 and 80.
When the new lenses appeared I got the 28/38/55 and used those lenses because I really liked the smaller size and weight.
Frienkly if I would mind weight and size at all I would still use the S system because I prefer the lens rendering over most xcd lenses, and I love IBIS for handhold shooting.
The 80/1.9 and maybe the 65 has been the lens which compares to those S lenses. But the 80 was more often at home because of its weight.
One day I decided to sell xcd-system and stay with Leica SL3 for more flexibility and to reduce my gear.

But after 6 months I missed the x2d (specially the colors and how the images come out of the camera).
I now use a 3 lens kit, 2 new lenses (20-35 and 75) and one old (45/3.5) as something in between for a small price.
I am quite happy with this kit. I don't miss the 21 or 30, I love the flexibility of the 20-35 and I like the IQ.
I am also happy with the 75 and its light weight and slightly longer focal length compared to the 65.
I am not doing pixel peeping.

BY the way...a x-body with a shutter in the body would be a dream to be able to use 3rd party lenses without rolling shutter effect. Or a sensor with fast readout.

I switched from old to new lenses. At first I did have some surprises in the margins but with 38 and 55 that appears to be some field curvature and I now have no issues getting c2c sharp at F11. Additionally the 55 is a particularly lovely lens for informal family stuff. The new 90 and 25 are very very sharp, the 90 especially so and has a lovely organic rendering which I think is quite analogue.

To my eyes the optical quality is as good as the older series but the haptics are so much better with the clutch MF, the weight loss and consistent filter size being significant gains. I swapped the 28 out for the 25 because of the haptics with a little bit of pain because of the size & weight gain - personally I think they should have stuck to F4 with it.

Pretty into the V glass. 25, 38, 55, and 90mm.  Consistent f/2.5 is nice and overall optical performance is very good on a demanding sensor.  Low CA.  Distortion and vignette are the main talking points, but vignette less so.  Distortion I think is within a reasonable amount given the tighter spec design.  Really enjoy the general function of the lenses in terms of the manual focus ring.  Very good work there.

I will likely be alone in saying I wouldn't mind slightly larger lenses at f/2, but not worth fighting about.  Also interesting that different shutter designs yield different audible sounds, but not an issue in practice.

I feel we are lacking on the V on the macro and longer focal length front, I'd like to see something there that is "new".  Probably a short tele and a longer one solve this overall.  It will be hard to one up the older 120 and 135 designs, but I would hope something slides into that space.

P series is nice for compact setups, though slower.  I'm mainly shoot and travel with my V series.

I'd like the af-d button to work in MF,  it just when set in camera but with the lens ring too.

I use the 2.5/38V and 3.4/75p for my X2D-100c. I also use other HCD/HC lenses with the XH adapter. You don't need a lens with a maximum aperture of f/2.5 for landscape photography. 

In this respect, I would be delighted if Hasselblad were to develop a portable lens such as a 4...4,8/21p (above the 20p...24p range) to complement the 2.5/25V. 

The xcd 4/21mm is about the same size as the 1.9/80mm, but significantly lighter.

I prefer the design of the newer lenses.

The optical results are more than sufficient for my needs: nobody will ever blow my images up to the size of a billboard and then pixel peep whilst standing 3 feet away!

None of them have quite the pure neutrality that my favourite lens of all time, the Leica M35 Apo Summicron did but overall the X2D system provides a better blend of IQ and usability for me - and much nicer colours than my M11 did.

A modern incarnation of the 45 in P or V would be great.