Is autofocus on 120mm XCD macro improved on X2d compared to X1D?

[wayne1]

The subject says it all. I am considering purchasing the 120mm XCD Macro for use on the X2D. I have been hesitant because of the many complaints about autofocus speed (and failures) on this lens, and I wonder if the X2D with phase autofocus has possibly improved the situation. A quick search revealed nothing.
Thanks
Wayne

[MGrayson]

Better, yes.
Good, no.

The XCD 120, even on the X2D is slow to focus and often hunts.

(The XCD 135 is fast, but at that focal length and that wide aperture, it frequently focuses on slightly the wrong thing and requires magnified manual focus to be sure, and that's also time consuming.)

Matt

[wayne1]

Thanks Matt
Still, the reported IQ of this lens attracts me, even if it is manual focus. I do have the 135, and judging by the MTFs they are both outstanding. The modest macro capability would bring something new for me. Some reviews suggest that this lens is particularly spectacular (https://www.dearsusan.net/2019/05/08/hasselblad-xcd-3-5-120-review-gentle-excellence/), maybe even better than the acclaimed Zeiss Otus. This is what got my attention.
Thanks
Wayne

[JCM-Photos]

I am a X1D and 907X shooter.
Before buying the XCD120 I rented it for a trial in a big studio with flashes.
Within the dim studio constant light the XCD 120 was unable to get AF, and so I switched rapidly to my XCD90 3.2 that did the job perfectly.
After this experience I did not buy the XCD 120, but the XCD 135 that meanwhile works fine in the same studio light.

I would be glad to hear how the XCD80 works on the X2D in AF.

At normal distances this lens focuses without problem on the X1D.
But at very short distances and strong defocused at the start, it is unable to find focus by itself.
Even in manual focus at normal focusing speed I am unable to find the focus as it passes so fast through the ultra thin depth of field that the eye never notices the sharp zone as does it the AF system.

I found how to fix it by first very slowly searching in manual focus the sharp zone of the focus, after this prefocus the AF is able to refine perfectly the correct focus very fast without problem.

How is the XCD 80mm behaviour  in this regard ?

[Hongkonger]

I've been using the XCD120 since 2018, initially on the X1D.  Slow focus wasn't a problem for me as I used the near and far scan settings under different custom modes.  That reduces the focus hunt substantially.  Unfortunately, X2D has removed the near and far scan function which I was really disappointed.  Went back and forth with Hasselblad to try to convince them it is a very important function for XCD120 users, however, it doesn't sound like a priority for Hasselblad.  The good news is that the XCD120 focuses quite a bit faster on the X2D which alleviates the issue.  I would still love to have the near and far scan function back.  I wouldn't relying on this lens for fast moving subject, indeed, most other XCD lenses too, but this lens is super sharp with nice bokeh esp in macro mode.  I actually use the lens more often for portraits and as a short telephoto lens.  I knew most people complained about this lense but it is my favourite.

[MGrayson]

Thanks Matt
Still, the reported IQ of this lens attracts me, even if it is manual focus. I do have the 135, and judging by the MTFs they are both outstanding. The modest macro capability would bring something new for me. Some reviews suggest that this lens is particularly spectacular (https://www.dearsusan.net/2019/05/08/hasselblad-xcd-3-5-120-review-gentle-excellence/), maybe even better than the acclaimed Zeiss Otus. This is what got my attention.
Thanks
Wayne

Oh, I wasn't addressing optical quality, as the question was AF. It's very sharp and has lovely bokeh.

X2D, XCD 120/3.5 wide open. This might have been AF, if I was clever and focused on Soup's lower eyelid. (Or I was really lucky.) 1/50 second would NOT have worked without IBIS!


Matt

[Bob Foster]

Hello JCM-Photos,

I can't say that I've seen the X2D with the XCD 80 exhibiting a focus problem in my studio with a typical pack & head with modeling lights setup at the distances I typically select this lens.

Focus throw with current firmware on both the camera and the lens is about 150°.

However, when the X2D with the XCD 80 mounted is used close to the near focus limit of this lens (70 cm) prefocusing (this does not need to be exact) will almost invariably allow the camera to focus nearly instantly (without a hunting for focus cycle.) Without prefocusing, the camera may or may not "hunt" for focus, though it will find focus in this situation provided that you are not closer than the near limit.

As your usage may vary somewhat from mine I'd suggest renting for your own evaluation.

Bob

[Ralf]

@Hongkonger

You can set Focus to Infinity or Focus to Closest Focus using the configurable buttons.  Maybe this helps...

[MarkN]

I imagine that the new face detect focusing feature will increase the percentage of in-focus portraits taken with the XCD 80 and 135mm lenses.  I imagine that face detect combined with IBIS will improve hand-held portraiture immensely.

[asfeir]

The subject says it all. I am considering purchasing the 120mm XCD Macro for use on the X2D. I have been hesitant because of the many complaints about autofocus speed (and failures) on this lens, and I wonder if the X2D with phase autofocus has possibly improved the situation. A quick search revealed nothing.
Thanks
Wayne

Going back to the initial question, and although I do not have the X1D/X1D ii anymore, I am persuaded that the X2D with the new software effectively improves the focusing speed of the 120, and rarely the lens has to chase back and forth. I use the 120 very often, and I can safely say it's day and night, even when focusing on a low contrast area.

[asfeir]

Maybe I exaggerated a bit, low contrast areas are still a bit problematic. Sorry.

[wayne1]

Thanks for all the input! I guess that I will get the lens. My use will be stationary objects in good light. Near mint used copies are around $3000 usd, while new is $4500. I wonder if there is there any downside to the used option, assuming it is completely functional? The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe quality control has improved since introduction of this lens in 2017, and maybe a new one would be less likely to have problems? The problem I am thinking about is a complete failure of the AF system reported by some users.

[glaiben]

I agree the XCD120M has faster AF on X2D compared to the X1D-II.  But in the real world of my type of shooting (flowers), it was not significant -- AF still hunted and it was easier to manually focus or move the camera back and forth a bit.  I sold it and bought the XCD135/TC for greater reach.  When I need macro capability, I either add an extension to the XCD135 or shoot with a Zeiss 100/2 ZF2 (easier since I don't have to fiddle with dismounting when I need infinity).  The latter has superb bokeh, but some chromatic aberration which can be tamed in post.  If I had a do-over, would keep the XCD120 and forego the XCD135.  I too bought it used (low actuations).

...gregg

[wayne1]

OK, I just ordered the 120 macro from B and H...should be here by Wednesday! I do not mind big, heavy and slow if the image quality is as good as many people say it is.  I am really anxious to play with this one!

[wayne1]

I just received the 120 macro from B and H. I must be dreaming, but the autofocus on my X2D with the new firmware is incredibly fast! From a subject 1 meter away to infinity, lightning fast (maybe a little hyperbole, but for Hasselblad ok). No hunting, just nails it. I was expecting much worse, but admittedly this is in good light. Anyway, very happy.

Wayne