Credo

[boojum]

<snip>

So many buddy software engineers here

I understand the frustration, I truly do.  I wish for all the same things.  But the idea that all this "stuff" is in there and someone just has to turn on the switch is fantasy.  With the amount of grief that goes into writing successful code it might just as well be written in blood.  And I truly worked down the hall from Scott Adams and he is writing about the life I lived and so many others of us have lived or are living.  And then there is "on call."  Those lovely 3:00 AM calls from some remote center saying the program broke.  And the fix is somewhere between 20 minutes and 20 hours.  They don't wake you up in the middle of the night for camera glitches.  But you can bet there will be some royal ass-chewing for it.  If coding were a fun, easy job it would be minimum wage.

So, folks, please remember that maybe you cannot see it but the folks at Hasselblad are working their asses off to get this done and done right.  It is not easy and it is not fun.  The only time it is fun is when the project is out the door and working.  That is fun, for about a week and then it is another project, probably a worse one.

[JCM-Photos]

For me, a long time X1D shooter, the new X2D is simply not up to that I have, need, appreciate when shooting with the X1D or 907X...
But I really don't understand why they did not take all existing X1D functions that allready exist in house on the X1D and H6...

What features do you have on the X1D that you miss the most on the X2D?

- eye dropper WB
- automatic focus stacking shooting
- in camera format cropping, I use most, 1:1  33x33 mm square fisheye shooting with my Nikkor fisheye zoom, and X-Pan format
- GPS coordinates in EXIF
- on camera cable release
- etc

[braver]

OK so most of it can be added in firmware.
Only the GPS will be external.
Hmm I wonder if we could reuse the X1D one...

[boojum]

OK so most of it can be added in firmware.
Only the GPS will be external.
Hmm I wonder if we could reuse the X1D one...

That would be nice, save money and most likely easier to do.  The code would be between the device and the existing firmware.  If the existing firmware was built for code to be added easily I'd guess H would follow that route.  They want to get the biggest bang for their Koner and do it in the least possible time.  That is always part of the formula.  We will just have to wait and see.

[David Mantripp]

Some may not be aware that Hasselblad is aware of this problem.  Let me assure you that they are.

Just curious, but on what basis do you give these assurances? 

[David Mantripp]

<snip>

But I really don't understand why they did not take all existing X1D functions that allready exist in house on the X1D and H6, need zero development, or debugging.

Write a lot of code, do you?  Everybody else's job seems easy.  The code would be plugin if the cameras were the same.  It's like expecting your new Accord to run on Dodge Ram software from ten years ago.  I can't believe that this has to be explained in 2023.  It should not need to be.  Again, if this were easy the customer would do it himself.

Code is a ton of dependencies.  It is not in English.  It is possibly not even ugly C, C+ or C++ but some impossibly ugly and difficult to understand Machine Code.  To help you understand the difficulty, something like F9 might mean "Load register 7 and branch to address stored in Register 6."  This is used when space is at a premium and in a camera it may well be.  Wizards and Necromancers write this stuff.  Now write a whole operating system for a brand new camera in that crap.  And write it so 1) It is understandable, 2) Easily readable, 3) Maintainable, 4) Upgradable.  Now do it under immense pressure from your peers, your team, your boss and the jerk down the hall who is everybody's boss and understands about as much about it as you.  If you want to understand what this programming world is like read Dilbert.  It is 100% accurate.  I know.  I worked down the hall from Scott Adams.

So instead of throwing stinkbombs at a bunch of guys who are under horrendous pressure to write impeccable code - remember what they wrote to create images and color - you might just want to start thinking about how damned grateful you should be when it gets done.  And remember that in spite of what is in Genesis the world has not been created for your pleasure and things just do not happen when you want them to happen.  In two words, grow up.

That is very right. The only nitpick would be that I'm very confident code is written in C/C++ for this kind of devices. I used to write C/C++ for GPU firmwares for iPhones in 2012 (when I worked at Apple), so I guess the tool chain for C/C++ for whatever SoC they are using in the X2D exists. Nevertheless, it takes a lot of time and debugging to port software to a new architecture, with a new sensor and all the dedicated hardware downstream.

"it takes a lot of time and debugging to port software to a new architecture" ... sure it does.  But I'm assuming that X2D firmware development did not start in summer 2022.

[boojum]

True.  This project was no doubt started while the camera was being designed and the camera and firmware ran on parallel tracks.  New camera, new lenses means all new code.  People who write this stuff are not being peevish and dragging their heels.  They are driven by their own personal standards and their own personal bosses.  When I wrote code I took special pride in writing readable, maintainable, understandable code.  When you are a pro that is what you do.  Just like photographers.

That the code is late is unfortunate but not a real surprise.  Please keep in mind that there is more than one group grabbing at the steering wheel on this bus.  Engineering, marketing, legal, regulatory, management and, last but not least, the scribes who translate English, or Swedish, into code that works and is as bulletproof as humanly possible.  I apologize to any groups I may have left out. Yeah, herding cats is an apt analogy.  And even the greatest coders make mistakes.  From my own experience and talking to others in the business I can say that anything working at all is not a minor miracle, it is a huge miracle.  It is hard to get this across to the general public as the general public accepts as a given that they can pick up a piece of hardware, push a button and get results they want.  It does not happen overnight.

So while I am disappointed that the firmware has not yet been released I know from personal experience that sometimes you just have to wait.  Complaining will change nothing about the release date.  If it did I would be complaining, too.  And like all the rest of you, I will be thrilled when the firmware is released and later upgraded.

[Sunil Mehta]

True.  This project was no doubt started while the camera was being designed and the camera and firmware ran on parallel tracks.  New camera, new lenses means all new code.  People who write this stuff are not being peevish and dragging their heels.  They are driven by their own personal standards and their own personal bosses.  When I wrote code I took special pride in writing readable, maintainable, understandable code.  When you are a pro that is what you do.  Just like photographers.

That the code is late is unfortunate but not a real surprise.  Please keep in mind that there is more than one group grabbing at the steering wheel on this bus.  Engineering, marketing, legal, regulatory, management and, last but not least, the scribes who translate English, or Swedish, into code that works and is as bulletproof as humanly possible.  I apologize to any groups I may have left out. Yeah, herding cats is an apt analogy.  And even the greatest coders make mistakes.  From my own experience and talking to others in the business I can say that anything working at all is not a minor miracle, it is a huge miracle.  It is hard to get this across to the general public as the general public accepts as a given that they can pick up a piece of hardware, push a button and get results they want.  It does not happen overnight.

So while I am disappointed that the firmware has not yet been released I know from personal experience that sometimes you just have to wait.  Complaining will change nothing about the release date.  If it did I would be complaining, too.  And like all the rest of you, I will be thrilled when the firmware is released and later upgraded.

So how exactly is this different from any other product ever sold or marketed? I've been in the tech industry 45 years and thankfully retired now but this sure sounds like a "woe is me" response. Whenever customers buy products, they have earned the right to complain if they find it either does not work or come up to their expectations, particularly with luxury items. And they do not necessarily have to worry about how the coders or engineers or manufacturers are misunderstood or feel "hurt" by the carping. This is how business is done. Customer buys product, customer complains, company evaluates and fixes problem, cycle starts again. The cycle of product improvement starts with customer complaints, valid or not, and generally not by some brilliant insight the designers might have in a vacuum. 30 years ago if your car ran flawlessly for 5,000 miles it was considered a stellar performer. Customer complaints to a large part transformed the industry in terms of reliability. It didn't matter that it was nigh on impossible to design the perfect carburetor. You can point to almost any industry and this holds true. The issue here is not that people should be more cognizant of the difficulty of the task that the company has to go through (that is after all what the coder signed up for and is not the customer's problem) but that Hasselblad has to weed through the complaints, prioritize, and improve their product continuously. And if it were a requirement that we all understand how difficult a job coding is before buying a camera, I'm afraid Hasselblad would sell precious few cameras and make even less improvements. So keep on complaining and hopefully Hasselblad hears.

[boojum]

True.  This project was no doubt started while the camera was being designed and the camera and firmware ran on parallel tracks.  New camera, new lenses means all new code.  People who write this stuff are not being peevish and dragging their heels.  They are driven by their own personal standards and their own personal bosses.  When I wrote code I took special pride in writing readable, maintainable, understandable code.  When you are a pro that is what you do.  Just like photographers.

That the code is late is unfortunate but not a real surprise.  Please keep in mind that there is more than one group grabbing at the steering wheel on this bus.  Engineering, marketing, legal, regulatory, management and, last but not least, the scribes who translate English, or Swedish, into code that works and is as bulletproof as humanly possible.  I apologize to any groups I may have left out. Yeah, herding cats is an apt analogy.  And even the greatest coders make mistakes.  From my own experience and talking to others in the business I can say that anything working at all is not a minor miracle, it is a huge miracle.  It is hard to get this across to the general public as the general public accepts as a given that they can pick up a piece of hardware, push a button and get results they want.  It does not happen overnight.

So while I am disappointed that the firmware has not yet been released I know from personal experience that sometimes you just have to wait.  Complaining will change nothing about the release date.  If it did I would be complaining, too.  And like all the rest of you, I will be thrilled when the firmware is released and later upgraded.

So how exactly is this different from any other product ever sold or marketed? I've been in the tech industry 45 years and thankfully retired now but this sure sounds like a "woe is me" response. Whenever customers buy products, they have earned the right to complain if they find it either does not work or come up to their expectations, particularly with luxury items. And they do not necessarily have to worry about how the coders or engineers or manufacturers are misunderstood or feel "hurt" by the carping. This is how business is done. Customer buys product, customer complains, company evaluates and fixes problem, cycle starts again. The cycle of product improvement starts with customer complaints, valid or not, and generally not by some brilliant insight the designers might have in a vacuum. 30 years ago if your car ran flawlessly for 5,000 miles it was considered a stellar performer. Customer complaints to a large part transformed the industry in terms of reliability. It didn't matter that it was nigh on impossible to design the perfect carburetor. You can point to almost any industry and this holds true. The issue here is not that people should be more cognizant of the difficulty of the task that the company has to go through (that is after all what the coder signed up for and is not the customer's problem) but that Hasselblad has to weed through the complaints, prioritize, and improve their product continuously. And if it were a requirement that we all understand how difficult a job coding is before buying a camera, I'm afraid Hasselblad would sell precious few cameras and make even less improvements. So keep on complaining and hopefully Hasselblad hears.

I have no doubt that you were in the tech industry for 45 years.  You are vague about in what capacity.  You started at 20 and retired at 65 I surmise.

And I do no think I said not to complain but to have reasonable expectations.  I am sure you are aware that Hasselblad is pretty much a boutique operation.  This is not United Consumerf'ers appliances with a huge capital budget and a phalanx of technical staff who can fix that cranky eggbeater ASAP.  Complain all you want.  Go to Gothenburg and picket the plant, write vitriol to the company president, chairman of the board, board of directors, head of engineering and IT.  Do you really believe this will change anything?  Really?

As you have 45 years in the tech industry you know the project paradox that adding people will only put you behind because the knowing will be teaching the unknowing rather than doing something productive.  So add more personnel and it just gets worse.  It is a death spiral.  So you, the rest of the unhappy, carping crowd and the silent sufferers will all have to wait until the job is done.  And believe it or not, even without your guidance and advice, Hasselblad is aware of the problems.

So, pointing it out again and again, with and without grief, accomplishes nothing in feeding the bulldog.  So, write long, write short, write dully, write eloquently, quote technical and marketing expertise and whatever else, you will just have to wait until Hasselblad gets the job done.

And the threat of loss of business is quite comical.  They cannot keep up with demand now.  They are not running banner ads for the X2D nor offering discounts.  They are back-ordered, for months.  And please be assured I will be just as happy as the rest of the folks on this board when firmware updates appear.  In the meanwhile I am out shooting rather than whining.  You do what you want, I'll do what I want.

[man-overboard]

Reasonable expectations - I agree wholeheartedly with that! Patience is a virtue too.