XCD 135mm alternative

[anGy]

1st I must admit I disregarded the X1D for a long time due to its bugs reputation and some bad lens reviews I've read about the hexagonal bokeh shape of the 90mm for instance.
But then, looking for a lighter, more modern option to my Leica S and more natural colors to my GFX I eventually switched to the X1DII & 907x with the 45p & 90mm lenses.

Really happy that I did so far as the 90mm lens rendering has the look I'm after and liked so much from the Leica S lenses.
The color science from Hasselblad is not just a marketing line, warm and natural, it's for me the best on the market today.

From my GFX kit I kept the Samyang 135mm f2 lens in Canon mount that I'm now testing on the Hassys using a (mediocre quality) fotodiox adapter. There is some play on this adapter but it does not look to alter the IQ (correctly centered image plane).

Some Facts:

(-):
* no AF
* no Auto Iso
* no lens/aperture data in the files as there is no electronic contact between lens and body
* Mandatory use of the electronic shutter
* Too stiff focus ring

(+):
* f2,0 aperture
* min. focus distance: 80cm (vs 100)
* aperture ring on the lens

Weight and size (with adapter) is comparable to the XCD 135mm

This Samyang lens cost 10x less than the XCD equivalent and offers some interesting + points.
So it is worse considering and testing.

This lens is sharp even at f2. From f4 already the lens resolves well up until the corners. No resolution issue with it.
Wide open the vignetting is strong but not problematic if you like using it for focussing the viewer's eyes to the central subject.

The bokeh varies from beautiful to quite good when the background gets busy and I was really pleased with the firsts nature shots I took.

[anGy]

This 1st experience was very promising. But the conditions were close to ideal in my parents garden with a lot of time to take the shots.

So next I went for a walk in my home town city center.
The Samyang is much less at ease in those conditions, combining quick manual focusing and precision was challenging (very short DOF at f2).
Zooming in to focus is not auto engaged when turning the focus ring, pressing the X button on the back of the camera body is needed.
100% zoom was excessive when handholding a 135mm lens with no stabilisation in the lens or body. 50% was better.

I missed quite a few shots trying to focus fast but also some because of the shutter delay of the X1DII.
There is still many situations where this body/lens combo is usable with an interesting outcome but recording decisive moments were somehow hard to catch.

[anGy]

But again considering the + points (f2, super low price) and the IQ that it delivers I started to believe that this Samyang 135mm f2 lens is a steal.

And then came the ugly face of the electronic shutter into play.
Well aware of the fact that the X1DII ES takes 0,3sec to read the sensor data I carefully tried to be as stable as possible during the shots.
It did not help avoiding the rolling shutter effect on many shots I took. This was particularly visible when old buildings were in the background.
Unfortunatelly I trashcan-ed the affected pictures.
This shot however is a moderate sample, the background vertical lines are curved (level and perspectives are corrected):

[anGy]

This is a real problem.
Most pictures are showing the rolling effect to a degree.
I didn't realize it when looking at more natural pictures without long vertical lines in it.
Some city shots were totally ruined by it even when trying not to move during the exposure (I'm a long range rifle shooter so am used to manage my arms and breath to be as stable as possible).

Quite disappointed. This is a showstopper for me, longer focal length + ES are not doing well together (also quite visible on the background of the 2nd picture here below, and those are moderate samples).

The lens quality is there and the 350eur pricing ridiculous compared to the XCD equivalent.

[anGy]

What to do next ?
Aware of the limitations of this body/lens combo I can still use it on a tripod or for subjects without strong verticals.
Obviously I can also take the plunge, break the piggy and buy the XCD 135mm.

I like this focal length. Its AF and probably even better IQ are appealing.
But the extra money, owning the XCD 90mm and the extender 1,7 being only available bundled with the 135mm (how stupid that is ?) are keeping me for buying it.

There aren't many other options, I only see one: waiting for the X2D to show up and hoping for its sensor to have a faster reading time...

Any comments are most welcomed 

[JCM-Photos]

The Hasselblad extender is optically a dedicated design to maintain the exceptional sharpness of the XCD135 without any visible loss.
Thus, the extender lenses reaches that far into the rear of the XCD135 that there is no chance to use it with any other lens.
That's why Hasselblad doesn't sell it unbundled.

Seeing the price difference between XCD135 with and without extender, it's a real bargain having two top performance lenses in one.

[Paul]

Hi,

Same conclusion for me regarding the X1DII and adapted long lenses: you have to use a tripod and you need a still subject (no wind or movement).
Otherwise you get a rolling shutter effect on almost every image, and that is visible when editing the images on your computer.

Solutions :
- buy the XCD135 (with its extender, as stated above)
- find a recent HC 210mm or 300mm, with the X-H adapter (good performance but not as sharp as the XCD)
- wait for an hypothetical X2D with global shutter

[wild-light-xpan]

I was also considering the XCD135 too but was also put off by the price. Instead, I got a mint HC150 from 2003, no autofocus but I actually prefer manual focus anyway. The performance of the lens on the X1D via the Hasselblad XH adapter is outstanding and all for a quarter of the price. The downside is weight, all together including the lens, adapter and tripod collar is over 1.5 kgs.

[anGy]

The Samyang + Fotodiox adapter & XCD 135mm are both 150mm long.
The HC 150mm + XH adapter is 190mm long.
The HC 210mm + XH is 230mm long.

As I want to avoid the paparazzi look and keep the setup relatively small (one of the reasons I switched to Blad) I won't go the HC 210 or 300 route.
But the HC 150mm could be an option.
I see some around 1000 to 1400eur in 2nd hand.
There is also one for sale with the orange dot and for 1000eur more.

Is the AF working with HC orange dot lenses + X1DII ?
(I've red that there is no optical upgrade but the CS goes up to 1/2000s instead of 1/800s max.)

[Paul]

For the HC 150mm, I think there are 3 versions:
- HC 150 : original version (2002)
- HC 150N : updated version with better optics performance (2007)
- HC 150 Orange dot : I would assume that this is the N version with the upgraded leaf shutter, capable of 1/2000. Probably introduced around 2013

From what I understand, only the last version can have AF on X1D.

[JCM-Photos]

All orange dot H lenses are fully X system compatible.
They are huge an heavy, have a mechanical distance scale, but have only 2 tethered AF bracketing modes in place of 3 for X lenses, their rendering is a bit less "hard" then X lenses.

No H or X lens leaf shutter goes to 1/2000s.
Their leaf shutter is limited to 1/1000s
1/2000s exposure is obtained by the body with electronic "first curtain function" 1/1000s after leaf shutter opening and exposure ending by leaf shutter closing.
The 1/1000s leaf shutter exposure is cut in half to obtain 1/2000s

The same way the Hasselblad A6 body goes up to 1/4000s with H aero lenses by only retaining 1/4 of the 1/1000s leaf shutter exposure.

[JCM-Photos]

I've used a lot the XCD135 with and without extender in aerial photography.
The only problem with this longer focal length is sharpness loss due to vibrations when not taking care of it.

Balloon shooting is perfect and I had never problems
The worst situation is with piston motor planes. You have to be very careful to not touch the plane structure with any body part above the belly. If for example you touch the plane structure with an elbow the picture looses sharpness.

The X1D is perfect for this kind of shooting. Lens focusing ring blocked with gaffer tape, lens hood secured with gaffer tape, S mode at 1/2000s and auto ISO, aperture f:8 or 11

[anGy]

Thank you for this interesting feedback Paul, JCM-Photo 

[SeanRL]

some bad lens reviews I've read about the hexagonal bokeh shape of the 90mm for instance.

There is more recently a setting that allows the aperture to further widen so there isn't a hexagonal shape bokeh, for those unaware.

Sean

[JCM-Photos]

polygonal out of focus light source doesn't for sure mean bad bokeh on subjects, it's different from lens type to lens type.

XCD90 hasn't bad bokeh at all (harsh transitions from sharp to unsharp, multiple edge in the transition zone...), but it has polygonal out of focus light sources rendering that can't be removed unless you're at full aperture with the round full aperture option enabled in the camera menu.

All older XCD lenses (like 45, 90, ...) have polygonal apertures with very sharp shaped corners.
Recent XCD lenses (like 80, 135, ...) have rounded corners apertures