3FR, 3F, and Archiving

[KeithL]

Hi all

First a bit of background info. I'm currently using FlexColor but with the arrival of a new computer next month I'll be switching to Phocus.

As I understand it - and please correct me if I'm mistaken - there is no point in archiving the 3FR files directly from the CF card, but rather I should archive and backup the 3F files once they have been imported into FlexColor?

When I do start working with Phocus will there be any issues with opening and working on the 3F files that were originally created in FlexColor?

Thanks in advance.

Keith 

[KeithL]

Derek, many thanks, that's interesting.

As I understand it the 3F files show all history states including the original conversion. What advantage do you see in archiving the 3FR files rather than the 3F files?

I recently read an article on the 3FR workflow in Victor 1/2006 which makes the distinction between the 3FR In-Camera format and the 3F Archiving file format.

I'd be very interested to hear others opinion and workflow.

Kind regards

Keith

[KeithL]

Agreed, but what advantage is there in archiving the 3FR rather than the 3F if the 3F contains all history states including the original conversion?

Best

Keith

[KeithL]

Derek

I should add that for the moment, because I'm unsure, I'm archiving both the 3FR and the 3F!

Perhaps other contributors can help?

Best

Keith

[Phil G]

Hi Keith and Derek

As  I went straight from film to Phocus with medium format this is my work flow

From a 'Use Neutral' Archiving point of view there appears little point archiving both, as .3FR and .FFF are proprietary Hasselblad file formats

As the H3D is an integrated system Phocus expands and applies the corrections so in effect the .fff is the 'developed negative'  the .3FR is similar to the latent image ??   
The HBlad Area Manager informed me that if even if you switch off (uncheck)  all the  adjustments when you import and convert to  .fff  you can still load the .fff file back into into Phocus and apply/manipulate  corrections at a later date.

My work flow is to import & convert .3FR to .fff which are saved in a scratch pad file named say HBA210409  (HasselBlad Archive Day Month Year) this file is on my striped drive (D2&3 for speed of operation as is my Aperture Library)

A copy is made to my internal backup (D4) and external FW800 drive
This 'mirrors' my other files which use Aperture2 and are imported into its library on the Striped set and saved using the Vault backup protocol  on D4 and external

I use the Aperture referenced file system with the Hasselblad files  ie not importing them into library or Vault but Archiving as separate referenced Masters in folders. Aperture archives thumbnails, Variations, Metadata etc 

This seems to be the most effective use of file space having one working copy ie the .fff with two levels of backup  one internal on separate drive and one external ie 150MB per image

So in effect I use Aperture for DAM and all the other features that Phocus does not have and I can still go back to original .fff and use Phocus to do what Aperture cannot ie Moiré corrections etc

Phil

PS I use a Mac Pro with 4x 1TB internal hard drives:  1. - System Drive   2.&3. - Striped working drive   4. - Backup  + Firewire 800 externals 

[NickT]

Hi Guys
I think the only reason to keep the 3FR is to save space. I would just archive the FFF as it is effectively a de-compressed 3FR with some additional instructions embedded, in other words you are not losing any information with a FF or degrading the image in any way.
Nick-T

[Phil G]

Hi Guys
I think the only reason to keep the 3FR is to save space. I would just archive the FFF as it is effectively a de-compressed 3FR with some additional instructions embedded, in other words you are not losing any information with a FF or degrading the image in any way.
Nick-T

Hi Nick

Thanks for confirming
and I have found that with my H3D 39 flies there is less than a 10% saving archiving .3FR  rather than .fff 

Phil

[KeithL]

My instinct is to archive the "de-compressed", "develpoed negative" .fff files.

Thanks to all for the info and personal workflows, much appreciated.

[KeithL]

Hi again Derek

I gave up on archiving/backing up to CD/DVD some time ago. It just became too time consuming and unreliable. I now back up vital files to internal and external hard drives, both on and off site.

Those off site backups help me sleep at night!

Best

Keith

[rsmphoto]

FWIW. I backup to identical, but not mirrored, removable 1TB HDs (cheap!) which gives me two separate archive sets, and because I don't trust using one type of medium I back up a third time on 25GB BD-R

[Phil G]

Hi Richard

As you are one of the few replying to this thread using a Mac Pro are you using bay 4 for your removable HD?

This was my short term solution but I was warned against it, better practice to dump to external eSATA bare drive unit or as I am doing at the moment 1TB FW800 units the USB units as you say 1TB's are very cheap at the moment.

Phil

[rsmphoto]

Phil,

I use an external Wiebetech RTX-200 - 2 bay. I like the Wiebetech because it has no requirements for trays, brackets, etc., just throw the bare drive in.

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/RTX200.php

It allows me to hot swap 1TB hard drives as if they were floppies. It's a great system (for me and my needs) and has worked flawlessly. It's connected to an eSata card in my dual Quad MacPro so it's transfer rate is acceptably fast.

I order 1TB HDs from Newegg - can't beat the price and they have a great return policy if the drive you ordered is DOA, etc. Western Digital is my preference these days after the Seagate firmware issue.

Hope this helps,

Richard

Hi Richard

As you are one of the few replying to this thread using a Mac Pro are you using bay 4 for your removable HD?

This was my short term solution but I was warned against it, better practice to dump to external eSATA bare drive unit or as I am doing at the moment 1TB FW800 units the USB units as you say 1TB's are very cheap at the moment.

Phil

[Phil G]

Cheers Richard

You have confirmed my feelings I had a look at Wiebtec eSATA last year but exchange rate was problem as I am nearing decision point I think a similar set up to yours will be the best option for me I can then make two copies and store at different locations.

How full should disk be I was recommended not to fill a working drive more than 2/3rds as it slows it down significantly due to less free space for housekeeping functions etc not quite sure how much headroom you would need to leave on the Archive Drives if you are only reading Master files   you would need to leave more space if you ever intend to update ?

Regards

Phil

[rsmphoto]

Phil,

None of my 1TB disks are completely full, not by design, just chance, and I've not noticed nor looked for any slowness (though some disks certainly have less than 100GB space left), but I access these disks only occasionally after the years' end - a 1TB disk holds a year's work with an H3DII-39 for me, right now. That will change if I move to a H3DII-60! In any case, since these are just used for archiving, I'm not that concerned with performance.

As for future space needs, if/when I move to a larger chip, I'm sure that I may need to switch to 1.5TB drives (right now $140 for WD on Newegg), and we'll eventually see affordable 1TB, 2TB SSDs and beyond with even higher transfer rates. Down the road, I would think I would migrate everything to those when the cost/GB declines to a sane point. In the meantime, this system is very cost effective and works perfectly for me and the way I shoot.

BTW the exchange rate is now moving in your favor with the £ now over $1.50

Best,

Richard

Cheers Richard

You have confirmed my feelings I had a look at Wiebtec eSATA last year but exchange rate was problem as I am nearing decision point I think a similar set up to yours will be the best option for me I can then make two copies and store at different locations.

How full should disk be I was recommended not to fill a working drive more than 2/3rds as it slows it down significantly due to less free space for housekeeping functions etc not quite sure how much headroom you would need to leave on the Archive Drives if you are only reading Master files   you would need to leave more space if you ever intend to update ?

Regards

Phil

[Phil G]

Hi Richard

I use 1TB's in slots 2,3&4  and have striped 2+3 for speed and use 1TB in slot 4 for back ups due the fact that whilst striped drives are faster using them you are 2x more likley to loose data,  and dump to external Archive 1TB's

I should have upped the system drive in slot 1 as 500GB [465act'] is not enough < 100GB free even with libraries and working masters on striped
So I intend to increase it to 1TB and put 1.5TB in other slots and use displaced 1TB's as archive drives  1TB seems an optimum size for archive and cheap

Regards

Phil