H4D-31 - noisy shots on ISO 400+

[alexanderfedin]

Hello everybody,

It looks odd to me that the bigger sensor with larger pixels of H4D-31 makes pictures much noisier than 3+ times cheaper Canon EOS 5D Mk II.
What is all the buzz about medium format cameras?
They are significantly slower (~1 shot per second), noisier, smaller range of ISO and shutter speed, much heavier, non-weather-proof.
The LCD screens on the digital backs resemble me some very cheap 20 years old video-games of their quality.
And the cost of these "things" is simply ridiculously high.

Can someone tell me what is this all about, what exactly the medium format cameras do that the contemporary full-frame DSLRs are unable to make?

Thanks.
--Alex

[meshuggener]

omg... 

[mauro risch]

How are you processing your images?

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

This has to be a troll! Here is a guy who has the camera that he is bitching about according to his profile. One would hope that he my have done a little research before purchasing.

[NickT]

We'll assume for now that Alex's query is genuine but rest assured there won't be any Luminous Landscape style trolling here

Nick-T

[Drchevalier]

I will take a shot at answering Alex's questions.

Medium format has a very different look from 35mm.  That is one of the many things that make it both successful and powerful.  Megapixel count is only relevant when balanced against overall sensor size.  I have shot both cameras mentioned and in no way is the H4D-31 noisier at ISO 400 than the 5D Mk II when the images are processed correctly.  I would suggest that whichever RAW converter you are using is faulty.  Try a fresh install of Phocus 2.6.6 and give it another go.

There's an enormous amount of engineering that go into these sensors.  making the presumption that Hasselblad or Phase One or Leaf should have the same ISO ranges and shot to shot speed as a 35mm or APS-C sensor is indicative of a lack of understanding of what medium format is designed for.  You can shoot sports, but it's not one of the top use cases for medium format.  There's a very good reason why high res magazines, fashion, architecture and landscape pros choose images at low ISOs from medium format over other options.

Another enormous difference is in the bit depth.  Many DSLRs use 8 bit image processing.  Your favoured 5D Mk II uses 14 bit image processing.  Hasselblad uses 16 bit image processing.  That is a very significant increase in tonal representation across all exposure zones that no DSLR sensor can approach, particularly if you use care in exposing your image.

If the goal is a very high fps rate with really high ISOs, may I suggest a Nikon D3 or Canon 1D Mk IV.  If the goal is superlative images delivered on very efficient larger sensor, then Hasselblad is the place to be.

If you do not like the results of your Hasselblad, then sell it to someone who will use it effectively and choose an alternate platform.  The alternative is of course to seek assistance with an open mind and try to make better use of your camera.  Being rude to those of us who have made significant business investments and who achieve proven benefits from the Hasselblad system is no way to gain support.

[Dustbak]

Simply by using my H4D60 I know it is the tool  which I most often prefer over my D800e. If you feel differently and do not see any difference in the outcome of your images maybe this tool is not for you.

That sounds simple but IMO that is exactly what it comes down to. Sure, people can come with a break down of why solution A is technically superior to B and why you should be using that but fortunately it is up to each of us to decide what is working best for us...

[meshuggener]

I think taking time to answer to this post/troll is useless. 

[Drchevalier]

Fair enough Meshuggener,

I did my bit and see that he has not elected to respond.  So that's that.

R

[vreeke]

i have H4D-31 - 50-110 mm , 100 mm

i swisch from canon wich prime lenses

i could not make a relative good photo since i have the Hassie

AF is slow, you cannot make a photo of moving objects and you wiill soon realise everything is moving as in nature for example

shuterspeed 1/800 is old fashion, you need 1/4000 at least like phase one/ mamiya

you need a manfrotto to carry


you need $ 2000 value of Broncoulor lightening to use the lenses freesing oportunities

you need 10 x time to spend for one picture

you need to studdy new software Phocus

you need a briljand monitor

you need fist class printer

weight is not an issue a DSLR + 70-200 zoom is just as heavy

there are lots of DSLR photographers so you do not make any exeption out there with that

your computer needs to carry 90 MB tiff files for H4D-31 to work with, jpeg 9 MB and RAW 50 MB. so forget e-mailing this

all in all H4D is an other way off living photography, if you are looking for making ones in your lifetime one good phot it might be an option bud if you like to enjoy and fill you flickr.com buy a point and shoot they are as good as the best DSLR 3 years ago

H4D is good for hobby, DSLR like 1Dx is for making money

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

and your point is?

[meshuggener]

JAJAJAJAJA !! OMG #2 !

H4D is good for hobby, DSLR like 1Dx is for making money

This is the most meta-idiot sentence I have ever heard in photography if it's not ironic 

[Monty Rakusen]

Why are these people allowed onto this forum?
Every man and his dog seems to be here nowadays and its not very relevant anymore.

Monty Rakusen

My REAL name

[NickT]

Dear Monty
I'm sorry the forum is not to your liking.
Perhaps I should stop running the forum in my spare time and paying for the hosting.

The forum exists so that digital Hasselblad users can support each other, it is not financed by Hassleblad just by me.

Perhaps you could make a useful contribution instead of complaining.

[NickT]

i could not make a relative good photo since i have the Hassie

Then I suggest you stick with your Canons. I have recently bought another Hasselblad to sit along side my 5D2 and D800 and my clients seem to think I can make relatively good photos. Of course it might just be the catering...