Hasselblad Lunar

[fotografz]

All due respect Peter, and with an open mind to anything positive in support of a brand that has been part of my amateur and then professional life for over 40 years, I still have to question your logic.

Louis Vuitton is, and always has been, a status statement in the whole other world of fashion. A steadfast statement with a storied history that each of their current products harkens back to. What you find ugly, is prized for its continuity and adherence to the core brand values. You do not see them selecting some mass produced handbag and slapping a LV logo on it, then selling it for 10X the price. That there are numerous counterfeiters of LV products is testimony to the opposite of that. Women buy LV because it doesn't go outdated. It is a lifetime purchase. I know women who "retire" a bag and store it for 10 years, then use it again.

Please allow me to make a more relevant analogy. Blinging up a NEX 7 is the issue here. The NEX 7 is already old tech by digital standards. Sony is poised to replace it soon, just like they did the NEX5, then NEX5N in quick succession. So, by the time Hasselblad gets the Lunar out the door, it'll be outdated ... basically a proposition tantamount to someone announcing they will be offering an iPhone 4 in a 24K gold case ... who the hell would want that with the iPhone 5 already here? Today's younger buyer is very savvy regarding technologically based products.

This Lunar will use the Sony A and E mount lenses.  Hasselblad doesn't make them, Sony and Zeiss do. No income stream for Hasselblad other than some outrageous mark-up for lenses anyone can buy separately. Sony makes money by capitalizing on their old tech longer than they normally could. So the only way for Hasselblad to make money is an obscene mark-up.   

So, how do you suppose that those not-so-rich kids will come by the $6,500 for this thing? How will they respond when their pal just bought the next NEX for 1/6th the price? The word "fool" comes to mind.

Please understand, I'm not a luddite and I am wide open to new ideas.  Had Hasselblad collaborated with Sony to produce something unique and original in terms of a photographic experience ... like the original V, the H, the XPan,  ... even something more modest at a more attainable price, great! But they didn't. They chose a "me too" APSc camera on which they will slap on lipstick and false eyelashes in an attempt to dupe the retarded rich. Even that is no easy matter in this day of the world-wide web. The disgust for it is already going viral ... and if Hasselblad or anyone else doesn't think someone won't google "Hasselbald Lunar" before dropping $6,500 on a point and shoot, they are hopeless.

Speaking of uncertain economic times ... my favorite quote from a web review so far is ... "This is the camera Marie Antoinette would have used were she alive today. A camera of such disgusting, aristocratic indulgence that it makes Liberace's Christmas costume look like a poncho doused in the tears of dying Pandas."

Meanwhile, I STILL do not have the battery clip for my H4D/60 ... one of the reasons I upgraded to that camera ... and Hasselblad cannot, will not, give me, a paying customer, a straight answer.

-Marc
   

[Marc Gysin]

Please understand, I'm not a luddite and I am wide open to new ideas.  Had Hasselblad collaborated with Sony to produce something unique and original in terms of a photographic experience ... like the original V, the H, the XPan,  ... even something more modest at a more attainable price, great! But they didn't. They chose a "me too" APSc camera on which they will slap on lipstick and false eyelashes in an attempt to dupe the retarded rich. Even that is no easy matter in this day of the world-wide web. The disgust for it is already going viral ... and if Hasselblad or anyone else doesn't think someone won't google "Hasselbald Lunar" before dropping $6,500 on a point and shoot, they are hopeless.

I think the same and for me the worst thing is that they claim the Lunar is the successor of the legendary and so much live 500C? That is just a plain joke and I don't think so that people (even the rich Russian and Chinese) will be so stupid to buy this... And I was also looking into upgrade from my H3II to an H5 but as Ralf and Martin I put this on hold and see what happens...

[Barry Goyette]

I know its the subject of the thread...but I think, personally, we're really beating a dead horse on this one. This is a hasselblad users forum, and so far the kids with the keys have failed really to prove this thing is a hasselblad. They've also squandered any opportunity to build excitement for their newest flagship product (the actual hasselblad), partially by the overall blandness of the "new and improved" but mostly the same old thing....H5D, but also in the huge marketing faux pas that is the Lunar.

Maybe we should all each of us go out today and make great picture, and send them all to Mr.'s Stig-Nielsen and Alessandrini with the caption "this is what your company is about".....and leave it at that.

Barry

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

Anyone want to make me an offer on a 40, 35-90, 100, 150 and 210? I may just be able to buy a Lunar if I flog it all off before the arse falls out of the market.

[Henry]

I've really enjoyed reading the comments here as we are, after all, people with not inconsiderable investments in the H system.  I also find myself somewhat bemused by the Lunar product - as Marc says, out of date tech (by the time it launches) covered in bling materials does seem a risky path to take, though it does work in other markets like phones (Vertu anyone? Now there's a classic example of old tech and bling in profitable harmony!). That said Hasselblad have built their reputation with quality aimed squarely at the professional and dedicated amateur - not sure there actually is a market to be had outside that niche for brand Hasselblad - is it widely known outside photo markets? I suspect not from the number of people I know who haven't even heard of them - I assume they've done their market testing and I'm wrong....  All the same, this does look like a devaluing of the brand to me, and the Lunar project has completely obscured some interesting new H products such as the macro adaptor, the new 24 and the H5D (which claims to have the clip on battery - we will be able to use it on our H3/4 backs I wonder as the long promised version for them has still not appeared?) which looks like a solid incremental move on from H4D (but as with others I'll reserve judgement until I actually get to see one to see if it's worth moving from my H3DII-50).  Maybe we're all wrong and this will work out for Hasselblad and Sony, and next year will bring us an 80 or 100 back with CMOS technology...

Henry

[Greg]

After coming out with an APSC sensor.  In your dreams, Henry.  I had dreams prior to the Lunar launch and respect for Hasselblad.  Both those dreams were dashed.

Greg

[Henry]

Greg,

Fair point!  Nonetheless Sony has produced some interesting cameras and chips with FF, so I'm still hoping for bigger and better to come!  Otherwise I really fail to see what Hasselblad are going to get out of this collaboration unlike their previous (and presumably continuing) partnership with Fuji...

Henry

[Alex Maxim]

Lunar does not support H lenses, right? Otherwise could be a second (snapshot) camera for those who already has H system.

[Henry]

Alex,

From what I've seen Lunar will use Sony E mount.  Mind you, those lenses can look pretty large on a Nex camera already, so H lenses would completely dwarf it!

Henry

[Greg]

Sometimes we need to consult with history to help us understand what is happening today.  Packard was a luxury brand before Cadillac became the standard of luxury vehicles in my father's day.  In fact, my father's fondest wish was to own a Packard automobile.  What is happening at Hasselblad is a lesson that has not been learned by their management.  Below is an excerpt from the history of the Packard automobile company.  As a very young child the police department in my small town drove Packards as squad cars; imagine that.  This may not be the specific path Hasselblad is taking, but you get the parallel.   

management had decided to direct the company more to volume middle-class models, thus concentrating on selling lower-priced cars instead of more expensive — and more profitable — models. Worse, they also tried to enter the taxi cab and fleet car market. The idea was to gain volume for the years ahead, but that target was missed: Packard simply was not big enough to offer a real challenge to the Big Three, and they lacked the deep pockets a parent company could shelter them from as well as the model lineup to spread the pricing through.  Instead, Packard's image as a luxury brand was further diluted. So, Packard lost buyers of expensive cars and could not find enough prospects for the lesser models to compensate.

Greg

[fotografz]

What is missing here is any communication to the current Medium Format user base regarding Hasselblad's long term intentions in support of the format we have all favored as our premiere tool of choice.

Personally, I was poised to do the upgrade from my H4D/60 to the H5D/60 and was financially prepared to do so. That prospect was no small matter, and I only need to know exactly how much better each of the improvements to the H5 really are in relationship to what and how I shoot.

Steve Hendriks, formally of Hasselblad, gave an even handed impression of the H5 in a recent synopsis of Photokina, saying that while incremental, the collection of improvements made the new H5 a better camera. He also noted that it looks better in person than the announcement product shots showed.

What currently bothers me is exactly what Greg has alluded to in his above post. Have Hasselblad pinned all of its future onto this Lunar adventure?  Will a failure of this effort place all of us at risk?

Will this be Hasselblad's "Contax N Digital" whose failure was the straw that broke Kyocera's back leaving all Contax users holding the bag with a dead-end system? While Contax did have continued 3rd party support for their 645, and Phase One continues to offer the C mount, the H series integrated digital cameras are a whole other matter requiring very sophisticated service support usually requiring the unit be sent to Sweden.

Hasselblad may bluster about how they know the market, yet the Brand landscape is littered with just such companies who thought the same. Which begs the question, what is Hasselblad's responsibility to its current user base if this venture into "unknown space" breaks their back?

Frankly, I do not care what they do as long as support for what I've determined to be the best image making system available remains strong and intact. I do not like the prospect of no Hasselblad H system ... leaving only Phase One who still significantly lags with their camera ... or worse yet, the 35mm DSLRs packed with ever more megapixels, thus losing the MFD look and feel that many of us have paid dearly to have in our arsenal of photographic tools.

Your thoughts?

-Marc

 

[Henry]

Marc,

I'm with you on your last para, and just hope that their marketing experts have got it right on the Lunar and it makes money for them which can be invested in more improved H series lenses and cameras.  The English-speaking photo media have, however, been less than complimentary (German media seem less critical - the Lunar got an award after all), so I only hope the intended market pays it no heed!  Lunar apart, I think it was a good Photokina for H system users - improved body, macro converter and 24mm lens.  I only hope the Sony tie-up yields future goodies in the form of new sensors in the future....

Henry

[stpf8]

Communication is the key to any good relationship, and that is currently lacking between Hasselblad users and Hasselblad management.  Both need each other, and management needs to know that its user base is just as important as the products it's wanting to produce and sell.  Management should see users as a critical ally.  I don't know that this is the case right now.  Like Henry, I'm just placing faith in their marketing experts, and simple faith is not much of a foundation for significant financial decisions that have to be made by people like me.