How reliable is calibration really?

[Dustbak]

This is one question that is on my mind for quite a while now. Today my X-Rite Colormunki arrived, before this I always used a Colorvision Spyder2Pro. I specifically wanted the Colormunki to be able to lift colors from things like garments. I often have debates about which color garments are but also often get questions to color one piece of garment into another color. In many cases they only have a small patch with the right color. Prettty handy to be able to lift the color from that. Anyway, first thing I did was calibrate my monitor with the Colormunki. The thing that was immediately apparent was the change in appearance. The Colormunki made my screen much less contrasty and more green compared the what the Spyder2Pro did. Sure, some differences I can accept but this was a clear visible difference. I have heard other people mention this as well but never really dared to examine. It does make me kind of nervous, how can you ever rely on calibration with stuff like this?

[HLArt]

I have used the i-One-display, the Datacolor Spyder 2Pro Studio also and now the spider 3Elite to calibrate my Eizo`s. I found out the datacolor spyder 3Elite give me the best results for my ICC-profiles and is much more better to handle than the 2Pro-edition, but there are only minimal differences in the results, with the Datacolor 3Studio I do the printerprofiling and save the Proofs to use in PS for my printworkflow. the Colormunki i have not sampled.

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

Ray, are you using a wide gamut monitor? I used to use an i1 Display 2 for monitor calibration but found that it could not calibrate an Eizo CG monitor. It left it with a magenta cast. I now use an i1 Pro. As I understand it, the ColorMunki should do the right job on any monitor.

[rem]

I use the Discus from BasicColor on my wide gamut Nec 271 Spectra View Reference. Looks so far good, better than with the iOne pro.
rem

[Dustbak]

Ray, are you using a wide gamut monitor? I used to use an i1 Display 2 for monitor calibration but found that it could not calibrate an Eizo CG monitor. It left it with a magenta cast. I now use an i1 Pro. As I understand it, the ColorMunki should do the right job on any monitor.

Not really, I still use a 30" Apple display. This does make me wonder whether I should get a new and more modern display. I am already waiting/hoping for several years now Apple will come with an updated version of the 30" but it looks like that is not going to happen. I am kind of reluctant to plunk down 5K for the 30" Eizo.

I have now calibrated 2 laptop screens as well with pretty much the same results, more greenish displays with a lot less contrast. (it is kind of in-line with some complaints I got lately of images being too flat and me having to up the contrast).

I think the first thing I will do is get myself a Spyder3Pro (or an I1 Pro) next to the Munki, if only to compare if these 2 have big differences.

[Dustbak]

I use the Discus from BasicColor on my wide gamut Nec 271 Spectra View Reference. Looks so far good, better than with the iOne pro.
rem

That is exactly my point. Calibration should make your screen look the same with both (granted some small deviations perhaps), when one solution leaves it visibly different than another it gets fishy IMO. They cannot be both right, in the best scenario at least one of them is right and in the worst both are messing up. It is kind of hard to really trust any of the 2 without referencing against others. 

The Spyder2Pro looked the best but what if it over-saturated my screen and upped contrast way too far? In that case every image I deliver will be too flat with dreaded colors while I think they look great!

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

Ray, you are fighting a losing game trying to calibrate Apple monitors. I don't even bother with my iMac screens any more, I just worry about my external Eizio. I use a CG222W 22". It is a screaming bargain compared to the others. I used an Eizo Flexscan for a while but found that it was more than a stop out from one side of the screen to the other. This made softproofing impossible. I think this brightness variation is in the later Apple monitors too.

I wouldn't muck around with pucks. You can't truly calibrate a laptop monitor anyway. The ColorMunki should be sufficient. This might add to your confusion: http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/MonitorCalibrationHardware.html#BestSensor

[Dustbak]

Thx Jeff,

I guess there is no other solution than to start looking for a new screen. This is all the excuse I need

Indeed I have seen the studies/tests on the various colorimeters. Amazing the differences can be that large. You have the newer iMac's? The old 30" screen used to be fairly easy to get calibrated properly, it is getting old by now and definitely a replacement would be worth it. I would want another 30" screen. I have some space limitations but also never really got used to working with 2 screens. It always appeared to me the most important part of my vision was blocked by the sides of the screens in the center.

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

Ray, I think so. It's worth looking at the two monitor solution. I have to because I use an iMac, but with a Mac Pro you can use a junk one and a good Eizo.

It's also worth looking at Chromix. Their newsletter has just come out. I can forward it to you, if you don't have it.

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

The new iMac screens are terrible. Don't even think about one. You have no real control over brightness. It's just impossible to get them low enough to softproof. I love them for looking at happy snaps but not for anything I wanted to be viewed by the public.

[Dustbak]

Yes, I would be interested in that newsletter. I just bought a Spyder3Pro (the 140euros is well spend if only to be able to see the differences.) The Spyder3Pro leaves my screen a bit more contrasty but funnily even more greenish than the Colormunki.

I think I will be using the Spyder3Pro for screen calibration, according the article you send me it should perform best with wide-gamut screens which is what I will be looking at. I will use the Munki to lift colors from stuff like pieces of cloth, etc..

Geez... what a hornets nest is this 

[Dustbak]

Just to have some fun, see the differences.

1) Spyder3Elite

2) Colormunki

3) Spyder2Pro

4) Spyder3Pro

[rem]

Dustbak, your right, sure, but for me makes sense, when they say that for my old iOnePro is not possible to measure the wide gamut colorspace (like some other new ones not).
rem