I sometimes find myself longing for a longer lens than what I can reach with my XCD 135mm + 1.7x extender. I have been thinking about getting a lens mount adapter to Canon EF or Nikon F/G mount and get a longer lens for one of those systems.
Have you found a good set up for this? Any good or bad experiences with longer lenses? I'm mostly concerned with image circle size/vignetting.
Of course I'll lose auto-focus (but I mostly manual focus anyways) and will need to use the electronic shutter. I'm ok with that.
What are the hive-mind recommendations here?
Looking at lenses in the 300-400mm range, maybe zooms.
There are a variety of longer teles available for medium format cameras that would work well without the vignetting of lenses optimized for full frame. One of the other forums had an extensive thread on this topic 1-2 years ago: Pentax, Rollei, Mamiya, the Leica APO-Telyt modular series, and of course the longer Hasselblad Zeiss glass (250/300/350) come to mind. Prices range from reasonable to stratospheric.
I had the Hasselblad Zeiss 250/4 FE and used it with a 2x Mutar. Ended up selling when I got the 135/TC. The 250 was not that sharp. However, there are many good things to say about the Super Achromat versions of the 250 and 350.
...gregg
Have you considered the Hasselblad 300mm lens plus Hasselblad Extender - perhaps that would provide full functionality.
When I need very long teles I use Hasselblad V Zeiss glass. It can still be found today at relatively reasonable price (for how long?)
When used on a V body with the 907X back I have even a working leaf shutter, e-shutter on X bodies
V system Zeiss glass has unique optical corrections in Phocus software on X system what brings superb image results
(you have to write down shooting parameters and entrr them manually in Phocus as there are no EXIF datas)
Even with the 250 superachromat + Mutar 2x (500 mm) there is zero AC, very fine details and the lower contrast can easily be compensated in Phocus sorfware
When I need specialty glass I use old adapted Mamiya 645 lenses the are really cheap (they were quite expensive new in the past) such as 50mm shift, 145mm soft focus, 500mm reflex (for strange bokeh), the fabulous sharp 80 mm macro.
Which adapter Mamiya 645 lenses for X2D for example?
I fully endorse JCM statement: Hasselblad V Zeiss lenses on a V body with the CVF back and leaf shutter for me.
Since the X2D is out, however, the option now (subject to having an X2D body of course) is between V body w/ leaf shutter and electronic shuter w/ IBIS, which in case of looong lens and steady subjects can be the right choice.
If the X1D only is available, then of course there is no option but ES, a good tripod and firm subjects.
In any event, all depends on expectations and the type of subject: I am afraid we all must rekon that the otherwise supreme Hassy gear cannot compare with a Z9+400/2.8TC (or the equivalent Canon, I guess) if you are shooting on a safari or motorsport...
Just my 2c/
Luca
Quote from: PeoOrvendal on April 13, 2023, 09:16:35 AM
I sometimes find myself longing for a longer lens than what I can reach with my XCD 135mm + 1.7x extender. I have been thinking about getting a lens mount adapter to Canon EF or Nikon F/G mount and get a longer lens for one of those systems.
Have you found a good set up for this? Any good or bad experiences with longer lenses? I'm mostly concerned with image circle size/vignetting.
Of course I'll lose auto-focus (but I mostly manual focus anyways) and will need to use the electronic shutter. I'm ok with that.
What are the hive-mind recommendations here?
Looking at lenses in the 300-400mm range, maybe zooms.
You can adapt the HC 300 and HTC for use on the XCD with AF (if the lens has firmware 19.1 or newer).
BUT - when I used this set up on the X1Dii the lack of IBIS/VR was notable.
The weight is huge (as is the price)
YES there are image circle concerns but the bigger issue is the lack of Continuous-AF when shooting wildlife -- everything moves and Single-AF is a huge issue.
I have no experience with lenses longer than the 135+TC, but my first thought was that this is a very similar issue to Leica M cameras for fast and moving sports at longer distances.
The camera is simply not built for that, there are better systems for that.
In the meantime there are already adapters for the craziest combination, so that almost every task can somehow be accomplished.
But all in all, such applications are only ever an emergency solution.
I'm currently testing a few third party telephoto-lenses for the X-system. You can read about it on my blog nordhaugphotography.blog (http://nordhaugphotography.blog). Although I have tested mostly lenses in the 150mm-range, I have a couple of longer lenses coming up too, e.g. the Nikkor 200mm f4 and the Mamiya Sekor C 300mm f5.6. I have only tested the lenses in a quite specific setting close to how I mostly use telephoto-lenses myself, but I decided to publish it as it still may have some interest for others.
Cheers!
danord
Quote from: man-overboard on April 13, 2023, 10:06:40 PM
Which adapter Mamiya 645 lenses for X2D for example?
Fotodiox makes an M645 to XCD adapter. I have one that I would give to someone for the cost of postage to try. My sample would not lock the M645 120/4 Macro that I had.
...gregg
Not 3rd party, but I'd second a vote for the HC300. You get full access to the 1/800 sync shutter (assuming a non-orange dot ver). It can be picked up for app. $1800 in clean shape, you can use flash (something not viable with e-shutter), no issues with vignetting and crap adapters, strong lens collar and foot, full Phocus post-shot corrections, etc.
With the empty-tube XH adapter you get 300/4.5, with the XH 0.8 it's 240/3.5 with improved performance, especially outside the center, and a resulting FoV as if the lens were mounted to the large sensor H6D-100C or H5D-60 CCD (202mm 35mm equiv). With both adapters, you've 2 lenses in one.
Thanks all for your thoughts. I appreciate them all. I am not sure why I didn't think to look at the V and H lenses, because as you point out, there are lots of options there. Apart from my XCD bodies, I also happen to have a 503cx, so I decided to pull the trigger on getting an XV adapter and a longer V lens, since I can then use it on both systems. The obvious most important (to me) trade-off being that I'm limited to the electronic shutter, but I'm mostly shooting landscapes and this will be for intimate landscapes, so it will mostly be less of a concern for me.
The HC 300mm looks really interesting too, especially with the XH 0.8 giving some more flexibility. @Conner999, do you have real world experience with this lens with an XCD camera? Any photos you can share so I can take see the results?
One important fact you may not be aware of, and that no one else has mentioned yet, is that the XCD 1.7 tele converter works perfectly with the HC 300 lens, yielding a 510mm telephoto. Since you already own the XCD 135 plus the 1.7 converter, the HC 300/4.5 lens would definitely be the best and obvious choice for a long telephoto.
And, of course, with the HC 300 lens, you would utilize its own built-in leaf shutter, without having to use the dreaded electronic shutter required with all other 3rd party lenses. You would need the standard XH adapter to mount. And yes - I do own & use this equipment.
Great Blue Heron - HC 300 + XCD 1.7 converter with XH adapter.
Here is a shot taken with Tele-ApoTessar f/8 500 mm CF with Mutar 2X bolted to the X1DII via Novoflex VX adapter. No sharpening in post of any kind.
Ah, being able to use the 1.7 xcd teleconverter does indeed make the HC lens a very compelling option. Thanks for that!
And thanks to Michael and to Grotte for posting those photos.
I do not own the 300 and keep waffling about buying it (don't know how often I would use it), but ~US$1800 (plus adapter) for a strong performing 300mm leaf-shutter lens w/full native support is pretty compelling. The longest HC glass I've owned is 210mm and it was stunning. Idiotically sold it. I've also owned the HC 1.7 and it's about as good as a TC gets.
I do own the XH and XH 0.8 and the latter is a no brainer. I was skeptical, but it does improve lens performance, especially outside the center, reduces CA and open up things by 2/3EV, which the body recognizes. When mounting our HC80 with it, the lens comes up on the body as a 55/2.2 with the FoV as it the 80 were mounted natively on a H6D-100/H5D-60. DoF is SKINNY. Our 28mm/F4 becomes a 19mm/F3.2, etc. Nothing else changes in terms of operation (focus peaking, etc).
I have used adapted glass extensively on DSLRs (up to the monstrous Mamiya M645 300/3.8 APO) and Fuji GFX-50S and once you start getting into telephotos, especially in medium format, the biggest issues become handling (and thus vibration).
You can save money on the glass, but then end up having to spend good coin and time playing MacGyver trying to find good adapters and lens supports/aftermarket collars to use the thing effectively - and thats w/o dealing with the slow e-shutter on the X.
In short, a good native-mount older manual HC telephoto with a strong collar and adapters designed for it is worth strong consideration.
I've had pretty great success using the Pentax 645 150mm-300mm on my x1dii (120-240ish FF equiv), it's incredibly sharp and lightweight and I'm considering adding their 1.4x extender to it to bring it to 166-332mm FF equiv. all in including a fotodiox adapter came to approx €400 shipped from Japan. The only downside is E shutter of course, so very light wind conditions only to prevent dreaded blurring.
The x1.7XCD is built and designed to go deep inside the XCD135 lens being integrated in its optical design.
This 1.7 extender can also be mounted on adapters to third party lenses but as it is then far from the lens I notice always heavy image vignetting.
I tried it with Zeiss CF 180, Zeiss CF 250 superachromat, Mamiya Sekor C 300mm and in all cases vignetting was way too high.
Using the lens system extender like for example the Zeiss Mutar 2x on CF lenses and then a V to X adapter works perfectly well, and specially well with the CF 250 superachromat
Since the time that the X series came out, hasselblad could have offered us a long focal length like 400 or 500 mm.
Maybe one day? Otherwise, it's all DIY. IMHO.
I ended up picking up a Hasselblad Zeiss Tele-Tessar CF T 350mm f/5.6 in mint condition, and got an XV adapter. I have a 503cx as well, and this way, I get a telephoto lens I can use on both setups (at the cost of having to use the e-shutter). There also works with the XCD 1.7x tele-converter, giving me a ~600mm option too. After all of this together and mounting it to my X2D, I decided to order the Hasselblad lens tripod mount right away before attempting to put this monstrosity on my tripod... I'll post a few photos with this setup once I get a chance to head out into the field.
Quote from: PeoOrvendal on April 19, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I ended up picking up a Hasselblad Zeiss Tele-Tessar CF T 350mm f/5.6 in mint condition, and got an XV adapter. I have a 503cx as well, and this way, I get a telephoto lens I can use on both setups (at the cost of having to use the e-shutter). There also works with the XCD 1.7x tele-converter, giving me a ~600mm option too. After all of this together and mounting it to my X2D, I decided to order the Hasselblad lens tripod mount right away before attempting to put this monstrosity on my tripod... I'll post a few photos with this setup once I get a chance to head out into the field.
You might consider a long-lens support rail. In fact, I would not dream of using that combo without one. Here's X2D, XV adapter, 1.4XE, and 350/5.6 on a Hejnar rail.
Quote from: MGrayson on April 19, 2023, 01:39:14 PM
Quote from: PeoOrvendal on April 19, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I ended up picking up a Hasselblad Zeiss Tele-Tessar CF T 350mm f/5.6 in mint condition, and got an XV adapter. I have a 503cx as well, and this way, I get a telephoto lens I can use on both setups (at the cost of having to use the e-shutter). There also works with the XCD 1.7x tele-converter, giving me a ~600mm option too. After all of this together and mounting it to my X2D, I decided to order the Hasselblad lens tripod mount right away before attempting to put this monstrosity on my tripod... I'll post a few photos with this setup once I get a chance to head out into the field.
You might consider a long-lens support rail. In fact, I would not dream of using that combo without one. Here's X2D, XV adapter, 1.4XE, and 350/5.6 on a Hejnar rail.
This is quite the setup! Impressive.
This thread has given me some hope about using longer lenses with my X2D and adapted Zeiss V lenses. I have a XV Adaptor and 250/5.6 CF lens, would a XCD 1.7x tele-converter work with that or would i be better off getting an older V Converter 2XE?
Quote from: AndrewM on April 20, 2023, 12:19:54 AM
Quote from: MGrayson on April 19, 2023, 01:39:14 PM
Quote from: PeoOrvendal on April 19, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I ended up picking up a Hasselblad Zeiss Tele-Tessar CF T 350mm f/5.6 in mint condition, and got an XV adapter. I have a 503cx as well, and this way, I get a telephoto lens I can use on both setups (at the cost of having to use the e-shutter). There also works with the XCD 1.7x tele-converter, giving me a ~600mm option too. After all of this together and mounting it to my X2D, I decided to order the Hasselblad lens tripod mount right away before attempting to put this monstrosity on my tripod... I'll post a few photos with this setup once I get a chance to head out into the field.
You might consider a long-lens support rail. In fact, I would not dream of using that combo without one. Here's X2D, XV adapter, 1.4XE, and 350/5.6 on a Hejnar rail.
This is quite the setup! Impressive.
This thread has given me some hope about using longer lenses with my X2D and adapted Zeiss V lenses. I have a XV Adaptor and 250/5.6 CF lens, would a XCD 1.7x tele-converter work with that or would i be better off getting an older V Converter 2XE?
Now that I have the XCD 1.7x, I can do the experiment. The original V 2XE works very well on the 350/5.6 SA shown above.
Quote from: MGrayson on April 20, 2023, 01:20:33 AM
Quote from: AndrewM on April 20, 2023, 12:19:54 AM
Quote from: MGrayson on April 19, 2023, 01:39:14 PM
Quote from: PeoOrvendal on April 19, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I ended up picking up a Hasselblad Zeiss Tele-Tessar CF T 350mm f/5.6 in mint condition, and got an XV adapter. I have a 503cx as well, and this way, I get a telephoto lens I can use on both setups (at the cost of having to use the e-shutter). There also works with the XCD 1.7x tele-converter, giving me a ~600mm option too. After all of this together and mounting it to my X2D, I decided to order the Hasselblad lens tripod mount right away before attempting to put this monstrosity on my tripod... I'll post a few photos with this setup once I get a chance to head out into the field.
You might consider a long-lens support rail. In fact, I would not dream of using that combo without one. Here's X2D, XV adapter, 1.4XE, and 350/5.6 on a Hejnar rail.
This is quite the setup! Impressive.
This thread has given me some hope about using longer lenses with my X2D and adapted Zeiss V lenses. I have a XV Adaptor and 250/5.6 CF lens, would a XCD 1.7x tele-converter work with that or would i be better off getting an older V Converter 2XE?
Now that I have the XCD 1.7x, I can do the experiment. The original V 2XE works very well on the 350/5.6 SA shown above.
Oh yes it works so well when I use this combo Mutar 2x + CF 250 SA
sad that Phocus has no optical correction for Mutar combos
Phocus optical correction exists for the CF 250 SA so I use it also with the Mutar,
It works exceptionally well
Quote from: Michael H. Cothran on April 14, 2023, 05:46:43 AMOne important fact you may not be aware of, and that no one else has mentioned yet, is that the XCD 1.7 tele converter works perfectly with the HC 300 lens, yielding a 510mm telephoto. Since you already own the XCD 135 plus the 1.7 converter, the HC 300/4.5 lens would definitely be the best and obvious choice for a long telephoto.
And, of course, with the HC 300 lens, you would utilize its own built-in leaf shutter, without having to use the dreaded electronic shutter required with all other 3rd party lenses. You would need the standard XH adapter to mount. And yes - I do own & use this equipment.
Great Blue Heron - HC 300 + XCD 1.7 converter with XH adapter.
Great shot indeed!
The HC300 orange dot is so difficult to find on the 2nd hand market, mint one asking $5,000 and more! But I am still really interested!
May I ask how about the AF performance on X2D? include HC300 + XH adapter, HC300 + XH adapter + XCD 1.7, and HC300 + XH 0.8 if you also have this combo.
Really appreciate your valued advice!
Best
Hello David,
Patience may help in acquiring an HC 300 (orange dot) at a more reasonable price. I purchased one in mint condition with a low shutter count about a year ago for ~$3500.
The true focal length of the HC 300 (per Hasselblad is 292mm. Adding a 1.7X teleconverter to the optics thus produces a focal length of a bit over 496mm. Autofocus and image stabilization do work when using the HC 300 (orange dot) with my X2D. Nevertheless, despite the published limits of 500mm neither image stabilization nor auto focus are available with either the X converter 1.7 or the HC converter 1.7 on my X2D. EXIF data is available in full with use of these combinations.
With either the HC 300 + XH Adapter or the HC 300 + HC 1.7 Converter + XH Adapter I have to pixel peep at greater than 200% to see any signs of chromatic aberration on or adjacent to a reflective metal surface. The corners are a bit softer than the XCD 135 with or without its' dedicated teleconverter. The XCD 135 is an exceptional lens. The HC 300, with or without use of the HC 1.7 teleconverter, is suitable for all but the most critical work. Given the smaller size of the X2D sensor compared to either 6X6 (nominal) for film or 53.4X40 as in the H6D100c you have use of the best portion of the image circle, it's my opinion that you'd have to carefully select a situation where an image produced by either the 250 or 350 Super Achromat were clearly, in every respect, superior. Contrast is often better with the HC 300 probably due to advances in coatings.
I can't recommend use of the X converter either alone with the HC 300 (HC 300 + XH adapter + X converter 1.7) or in addition to the HC 1.7 converter (HC 300 + HC converter 1.7 + XH Adapter + X converter 1.7). Overall image quality did not approach the Hasselblad standard that I hoped for given a calm atmosphere and use of a very solid tripod and head. In addition, these combinations produced a strong and very odd color fringing, cyan and orange that was readily visible without magnification in Phocus, Phocus was unable to satisfactorily remove the fringing, The fringing was a bit worse on the edges and corners than in the central 70% of the image. Lightroom and Photoshop work well on ordinary purple and green fringing, and less than optimally in an odd instance like this. The defringing tool in Affinity does not appear to be biased to efficiently remove purple and green but will readily remove any fringing color. As the edges and corners were more affected than the center I treated those areas on an additional layer, I noted above that the X Teleconverter was designed for use with the XCD 135. Perhaps this is why things did not work well with the HC 300.
I do not own an XH Converter, thus I can't offer anything from experience.
The HC 300 is heavy. With or without a converter I can't emphasize the need for an truly best quality tripod and head enough. I fully agree with Matt Grayson that long lens support is essential.
Only when the atmosphere is truly calm can good results be expected.
I'll add to this that inequalities in temperature on and near the earths surface can be as bad or worse. This creates a form of mirage that can cause some of the elements within an image to appear to slowly drift, wiggle, or move very rapidly ("snap") by as much as a full degree.
Bob
Dear Bob
Thanks so much for the hands-on experience sharing!
It is truly helpful for me in the situation of no chance to try.
Great to learn that the the IQ of HC 300 + XH adapter is par with XCD 135 (w/wo 1.7) except corners. and also it is a pity that the AF will not work with any teleconverter. I agree that the X1.7 is dedicated for XCD 135, so the performance downgrade on HC 300 can be expected.
Totally agree with you and Matt that the lens support is critical for telephoto especially greater than 300mm. and appreciate the alert for the mirage phenomenon near ground (I have occasionally notify some when shot in Africa).
I will wait patient for a good price, around $4000 will be good :)
BTW, do you have any experience or insights for the FF telephoto lens work on 4433, such as Canon EF 328/428? beside the AF and aperture change challenge, does the IQ can reach HB standard? (I have adapted the TS-E 17L before X2D upgrade the firmware to 3.1.0, the performance is amazing from f5.6 corner to corner, without shift too much).
Thanks again for your warm and professional experience sharing!
Best
David
My trials to use the X 1.7 X extender from the XCD135 with third party lenses gave poor results in terms of vignetting.
As the extender is before the adapter ring and too far from the third party tele it gives strong bad vignetting.
The Zeiss Mutar 2X gives superb results with Zeiss CF Apo teles.
The problem with the 250 Superachromat is that it only opens at f:11 what makes V camera focusing impossible on the ground glass, so you have to focus with LV.
Other problem is the limited shutter speed of 1/500s what makes handhold shooting impossible, only tripod and mirror prerelease can give sharp digital images.
Used on X cameras you have the rolling shutter problem you have to deal with.
I had an HC 300/4.5, but stupidly sold it when I got the 350/5.6 SA. With the X2D, I find that AF is seldom accurate enough and I'm always doing manual adjustments - especially at large apertures. It's not that the AF fails, it's that it often focuses on the wrong thing. Focus peaking, which works across the entire frame, shows me the band of focus and I can move it to suit.
So I would happily use a non-orange-dot HC 300 for its shutter alone. And with IBIS, it is possible to use magnified manual focus, even hand-held.
This was hand-held and without IBIS (Leica S) 1/750 sec
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51602489447_4526d9babd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mBWfiV)
And on a tripod..
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51557769351_efea004fdd_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mxZ3zM)
Great lens. Did I mention I was stupid for selling it?
Matt
David,
Autofocus does indeed work with the HC 300 plus the XH adapter. As Matt noted the result of such use can almost always benefit from a slight manual adjustment. Ibis works with this combination but I am past the age where I'd attempt to use this lens handheld. I routinely shut Ibis off when using a tripod.
Autofocus does not work with the HC 300 plus the H 1.7 teleconverter plus the XH Adapter I did not attempt to try use of Ibis.
I'm willing to try a Nikon 500mm f4 with and without a 1.4 X teleconverter and my Novoflex adapter. However, the weather forecast shows that the next suitable time when conditions might be suitable is shortly after dawn on 3 April.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Foster on March 31, 2024, 12:18:06 AMIbis works with this combination but I am past the age where I'd attempt to use this lens handheld.
Yes, that was more a "could it be done" than a "should it be done". To my knowledge, the only hand-holdable 300mm for the X system is the Mamiya 645 300/5.6 ULD. At 900g including adapter, it's less than 40% of the HC 300/4.5's weight. Even the Zeiss 250/5.6 SA is 30% heavier. I've never noticed CA on the ULD lens - probably due to the X sensor being cropped compared to 645.
Quote from: JCM-Photos on March 30, 2024, 09:11:21 PMMy trials to use the X 1.7 X extender from the XCD135 with third party lenses gave poor results in terms of vignetting.
As the extender is before the adapter ring and too far from the third party tele it gives strong bad vignetting.
The Zeiss Mutar 2X gives superb results with Zeiss CF Apo teles.
The problem with the 250 Superachromat is that it only opens at f:11 what makes V camera focusing impossible on the ground glass, so you have to focus with LV.
Other problem is the limited shutter speed of 1/500s what makes handhold shooting impossible, only tripod and mirror prerelease can give sharp digital images.
Used on X cameras you have the rolling shutter problem you have to deal with.
Thanks JCM-Photos
Zeiss Mutar is indeed a great extender, I have not chance to try the one for HB V lenses, but I have one for Contax YC, it works perfect with my 35/1.4, even make better result @ wide open!!
When you say Zeiss CF App Tele, do you mean 500 f8?
250 SA is an exceptional lens, although it is single coat without T*, still the best performer for all visible spectrum.
Weight and shutter speed is always an issue, although I am not too old, still not a muscles man, when dealing with 300mm above, always rely on tripod or at least monopod. That's why I like big aperture ones.
Thanks for the advice for slight manual adjustment when using AF, I am learning to make it habitual right now.
Quote from: MGrayson on March 30, 2024, 11:13:23 PMI had an HC 300/4.5, but stupidly sold it when I got the 350/5.6 SA. With the X2D, I find that AF is seldom accurate enough and I'm always doing manual adjustments - especially at large apertures. It's not that the AF fails, it's that it often focuses on the wrong thing. Focus peaking, which works across the entire frame, shows me the band of focus and I can move it to suit.
So I would happily use a non-orange-dot HC 300 for its shutter alone. And with IBIS, it is possible to use magnified manual focus, even hand-held.
This was hand-held and without IBIS (Leica S) 1/750 sec
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51602489447_4526d9babd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mBWfiV)
And on a tripod..
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51557769351_efea004fdd_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mxZ3zM)
Great lens. Did I mention I was stupid for selling it?
Matt
Thanks Matt
Your pics prove the value of HC300!
SA lenses are all outstanding ones, not so mint ones with thousands clicks in 2nd hand market still cost lot - 250 SA ($1500), 350 SA ($6500), and 300 SA ($36000)!!!
Quote from: Bob Foster on March 31, 2024, 12:18:06 AMDavid,
Autofocus does indeed work with the HC 300 plus the XH adapter. As Matt noted the result of such use can almost always benefit from a slight manual adjustment. Ibis works with this combination but I am past the age where I'd attempt to use this lens handheld. I routinely shut Ibis off when using a tripod.
Autofocus does not work with the HC 300 plus the H 1.7 teleconverter plus the XH Adapter I did not attempt to try use of Ibis.
I'm willing to try a Nikon 500mm f4 with and without a 1.4 X teleconverter and my Novoflex adapter. However, the weather forecast shows that the next suitable time when conditions might be suitable is shortly after dawn on 3 April.
Bob
Thanks again Bob for the info
Really exciting to looking forward to see your test with the Nikon 500/4!
I were on Canon before move to HB, very like the 328 and 428 (I do not have them now, but used a lot back in RMIT shooting portrait and landscape). I just had the X2D less than a year, initially only 38V and 135 for most of the time, I trade most of my EF, R and YC lenses not workable on X2D for a 90V and 21 recently, still have some remaining, so are looking for a telephoto one :)
BTW, I found that some old lens such as 17L, R100/2.8 and R35-70 E67 perform really well on X2D, I will try to do some non-scientific test @ MFD and infinite compare with XCD lenses I have. Any result will seek your professional comments again
Thanks again and happy Easter!
Quote from: MGrayson on March 31, 2024, 01:23:15 AMYes, that was more a "could it be done" than a "should it be done". To my knowledge, the only hand-holdable 300mm for the X system is the Mamiya 645 300/5.6 ULD. At 900g including adapter, it's less than 40% of the HC 300/4.5's weight. Even the Zeiss 250/5.6 SA is 30% heavier. I've never noticed CA on the ULD lens - probably due to the X sensor being cropped compared to 645.
Yes, Mamiya 645 is a great MF solution, light and cheap, the 300/5.6 ULD only cost $150, even the APO 300/4.5 is just $600 and 1.4kg, 2/3 of HC300.
Happy Easter, Matt!
Quote from: davidjiang on March 31, 2024, 04:51:58 AMQuote from: MGrayson on March 31, 2024, 01:23:15 AMYes, that was more a "could it be done" than a "should it be done". To my knowledge, the only hand-holdable 300mm for the X system is the Mamiya 645 300/5.6 ULD. At 900g including adapter, it's less than 40% of the HC 300/4.5's weight. Even the Zeiss 250/5.6 SA is 30% heavier. I've never noticed CA on the ULD lens - probably due to the X sensor being cropped compared to 645.
Yes, Mamiya 645 is a great MF solution, light and cheap, the 300/5.6 ULD only cost $150, even the APO 300/4.5 is just $600 and 1.4kg, 2/3 of HC300.
Happy Easter, Matt!
Thank you!
I'd love to be able to use the APO 300/4.5, but it has no aperture ring and needs an electronic adapter. Will it work with anything other than a Mamiya or Phase One body?
M
[/quote]
Thank you!
I'd love to be able to use the APO 300/4.5, but it has no aperture ring and needs an electronic adapter. Will it work with anything other than a Mamiya or Phase One body?
M
[/quote]
Seems Kipon has one Phase/M645-GFX E adapter.
There are quite some E-adapters for GFX allow aperture control even AF, but not HB X system...
Quote from: Bob Foster on March 30, 2024, 04:06:04 PMHello David,
Patience may help in acquiring an HC 300 (orange dot) at a more reasonable price. I purchased one in mint condition with a low shutter count about a year ago for ~$3500.
Bob
Dear Bob
By your bless, I found one mint HC 300 orange dot with only 15 clicks plus unopened XH adapter and 0.8 converter @ $4600!!!
I can hand on the lens by tomorrow! so excited!
Report back here
I just make some simple & lax test for HC300 with XH Adapter and XH Converter 0.8, along with XCD 135 & X Converter 1.7, both on tripod and handheld.
AF works for all scenarios, all fast and accurate except HC300+XH+X1.7 combo will hunting or fail 30% of the time.
IBIS also works well except HC300+XH+X1.7
For Sharpness:
Wide open, XCD135+X1.7 @f4.8, HC300+XH0.8 @f3.5, HC300+XH @f4.5, HC300+XH+X1.7 @f7.1
Center: XCD135+X1.7 > HC300+XH > HC300+XH0.8 > HC300+XH+X1.7
Corner: XCD135+X1.7 > HC300+XH = HC300+XH0.8 > HC300+XH+X1.7
All @f8
Center: HC300+XH0.8 > XCD135+X1.7 = HC300+XH > HC300+XH+X1.7
Corner: HC300+XH0.8 = XCD135+X1.7 > HC300+XH > HC300+XH+X1.7
And the combo with X1.7 is bit soft and vignetting, just like Bob conclude, it did not reach HB standard. one fact need to be considered, I was so keen to do some test so just took the shots through my window which is very near to a busy road and a railway, there are many car and train pass by, when I use EVF enlarge to focus, the whole image is heavily shaking since the IBIS is off, for other 3 combos, I can turn IBIS on, and the shaking is much better. I will find a more calm place to test again.
The X1.7 is dedicated for XCD135, then how about the H1.7, does it provide better IQ than X1.7 when combo with HC300? I may find one to try, and to see whether AF can also work.
I also tried handheld, with IBIS on and safe shutter speed @ 1/2X, HC300 with XH or XH0.8 provide quiet amazing result. plus the X1.7, bit too heavy for me, but AF with high contrast target and 1/1000 to 1/2000 shutter speed provide acceptable result.
Hope next firmware upgrade can exceed the 500mm limits for IBIS.
Maybe I will also try the 250SA, 350SA or Mamiya 300 ULD, but not near future...
Thanks again for all your valued advices!!
David,
My experience has been that the H 1.7 converter works much better with the HC 300 than the X converter does.
The odd thing about IBIS not being allowed to be used with the HC 300 lens + a 1.7 converter is that if the true focal length is 292mm as Hasselblad states in a number of brochures and if the converter is truly produces a 1.7X magnification then the focal length of the combination is 496.4mm.
Bob
I got one H1.7, tried shot @ MFD for some popmarts (on tripod, ES, AF, ISO64, Phocus Mobile 2 trigger, from wide open to f11), all 6 types of combo work fine.
AF works except HC300+H1.7+XH+X1.7. AF on HC300+XH+X1.7 is better than HC300+H1.7+XH, but still will hunting or fail.
IBIS only work with HC300+XH or HC300+XH0.8 or HC300+H1.7+XH0.8, seems must below 500mm.
Use XCD135+X1.7 as ruler, it perform great from f4.8 to f11, very constant!
all comparison is for central focus point.
HC300+XH is unexpected good, only f4.5 bit softer, f5.6 is par with XCD135+X1.7, f8 & f11 is better!! and no obvious vignetting.
HC300+XH0.8 f3.5 & f4 is quite soft, f5.6 to f11 is par with XDC135+X1.7, no obvious vignetting
HC300+H1.7+XH0.8, only f11 is almost par with XCD135+X1.7, vignetting
HC300+H1.7+XH, all softer than XCD135+X1.7, f11 is acceptable, vignetting
HC300+XH+X1.7, f7.1 is soft, f8 is acceptable, f11 is almost par with XCD135+X1.7, vignetting
HC300+H1.7+XH+X1.7, f12 is soft, f14 is acceptable. quite heavy vignetting.
Seems my H1.7 copy is not very good...., but this is MFD, let's wait the test for infinite.
Later after I found a calm place outside, I will re-test the infinite result. considering the HFD of the biggest combo is about 1.5km, not so easy in such a big & busy city...
Quote from: Bob Foster on April 04, 2024, 02:35:12 AMDavid,
My experience has been that the H 1.7 converter works much better with the HC 300 than the X converter does.
The odd thing about IBIS not being allowed to be used with the HC 300 lens + a 1.7 converter is that if the true focal length is 292mm as Hasselblad states in a number of brochures and if the converter is truly produces a 1.7X magnification then the focal length of the combination is 496.4mm.
Bob
You are right! Bob, it's 496.4mm!! should within 500mm limits, but the exif tell is 510mm....
H1.7+XH0.8 exif say 400mm
H1.7+X1.7 exif say 850mm
...
I re-test the infinity in a more calm environment, AF focus then zoom in for slight manual adjustment, all operate from Phocus Mobile, try best not touch the camera at all.
Result is bit different with the first infinity test:
230=XCD135+X1.7
240=HC300+XH0.8
300=HC300+XH
400=HC300+H1.7+XH0.8
510H=HC300+H1.7+XH
510X=HC300+XH+X1.7
850=HC300+H1.7+XH+X1.7
Center
(f3.5 to f7.1)
230/5.6 >= 230/4.8 > 240/5.6 >= 300/5.6 >= 240/4.5 > 240/3.5 >= 300/4.5 > 510X/7.1 >= 510H/7.1 > 400/6.3
(f8)
230 >= 240 > 300 > 400 >= 510X >= 510H
(f11)
400 >= 230 = 240 = 300 > 510X >= 510H > 850/16 >> 850/14 > 850/12
Corner, due to big differences of angle of view from 230 to 850, so compare in 2 groups, 230/240/300, 400/510H/510X/850
240/240/300
(f3.5 to f4.8)
230/4.8 > 240/4.5 >= 300/4.5 > 240/3.5
(f5.6)
230 > 240 >= 300
(f8)
230 >= 240 = 300
(f11)
230 = 240 = 300
400/510H/510X/850
(f6.3,f7.1)
510H/7.1 > 510X/7.1 > 400/6.3
(f8)
510H >= 400 > 510X
(f11)
510H = 400 >= 510X > 850/16 >> 850/14 > 850/12
The 240 is perform well, only slightly soft than 230 @ wide open. 400 is very soft wide open but extremely good @ f11. 510X center is slightly better than 510H, but corner 510H is much better. 850 is expected, only f16 can catch up.
And AF on H1.7 is much faster & determined than X1.7
David,
I tried the Nikon 500/4 this A.M.
Vignetting is an issue. When used on an X2D, a carefully centralized 24 X 36 image closely approaches the useful limit of this lens.
The center of the images I made matches the IQ of the Hasselblad HC 300 + HC 1.7.
You have too look hard to see a difference but in the cropped the images from the Nikkor the edges appear to be very slightly softer than the same area of a full size image made with the HC 300 + HC 1.7.
In my opinion you're better off using the HC 300 plus the HC 1.7...
Bob
Quote from: Bob Foster on April 05, 2024, 06:14:48 AMDavid,
I tried the Nikon 500/4 this A.M.
Vignetting is an issue. When used on an X2D, a carefully centralized 24 X 36 image closely approaches the useful limit of this lens.
The center of the images I made matches the IQ of the Hasselblad HC 300 + HC 1.7.
You have too look hard to see a difference but in the cropped the images from the Nikkor the edges appear to be very slightly softer than the same area of a full size image made with the HC 300 + HC 1.7.
In my opinion you're better off using the HC 300 plus the HC 1.7...
Bob
Dear Bob
Really appreciate your time for the meticulous testing and sharing the result. I will stick to HC300+H1.7 now and get use to how to manage this combo.
Seems many FF telephoto lens can't cover the full 4433. I also found some similar articles taking about Canon 500/4 and 400/2.8, both has obvious vignetting
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4748855
https://youtu.be/mL3XoLtiOA8
and the IQ also not supprise me.
I also found one document try to record all tested lens for medium format, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit#gid=0
Maybe not so accurate, but at least for reference.
Thanks again Bob for your great help! real test from an experienced profession always most valued.
longer V lenses on V body an CFV back can only be used on tripod with mirror prerelease as the fastest shutter speed of 1/500s gives unsharp results when handheld.