See
https://www.hasselblad.com/h6d-multishot/
Regards,
Ralf
Potentially really great - but until more control is given to limit the often harsh (halo) sharpening that is automatically applied when Phocus deals with 4shot & 6shot images, I'll be keeping my money in my pocket (or looking at the colour handling that the new Trichromatic sensor tech is using).
Hasselblad, give us some RAW files examples rather than the PNG of the photostacked beetle please, Thanks
A
Be nice to get all of the firmware issues implemented for the H6D-50/100 before they invent more models.
Quote from: DJPixelMan on January 18, 2018, 12:34:02 AM
Be nice to get all of the firmware issues implemented for the H6D-50/100 before they invent more models.
What are the things you missed most on the H6D that you had on the H5D?
H4D actually. White balance measurement, Profiles are my two main ones. There is a thread somewhere else here running on all of the things that people want that haven't been addressed.
But to be fair with the latest fw upgrades only a few items which were promised are still missing:
- User profiles
- Over-/underexposure warning on sound
- Grey balance exposure
- 3FR Raw files compression
- Enter of personal and IPTC information
- Image ratings directly on the captures in-camera
user profiles and grey balancing are for me the most important open items. The list from late 2016 contained probably more than 30 items. Several fw upgrades during 2017 added:
- Overexposure warning (,,blinkies")
- Histogram on grip display
- Spirit level
- Power over USB 3.0 / Reduced power consumption in tethering
- Reading of lens shutter and camera count
- Raw Video
- Technical camera support (flash sync and E-Shutters) and Pinhole
- Image import from a tethered camera
- Focus Peaking in Life View
- HTS full support
- Support for Film magazine
- Video poster frame in Browser mode
- Image sequence counter reset (service menu)
- Factory reset (service menu)
- Improved contrast level in video
- LCD color improvements
- Language updates
- Support for CF Lens Adapter.
- Additional options for Custom Buttons.
- Possible to create folders on storage media.
- Button lock function.
- Grid overlay can be toggled On/Off with Display Button in Video Live View.
- New language: Swedish.
- Crop Modes. Add a selectable crop mask to Live View and the RAW file.
- Backup storage option added. Save same file (3FR, JPG and MP4) to both cards.
- Added exposure info in Live View Spirit Level Overlay.
- New menu: Image.
- Support for additional memory cards
Pretty impressive this latest listing for 1 year fw upgrades, cudos to Hasselblad!
"- Spirit level"
Can one now user calibrate for both/all orientations or is it still just the one choice (portrait or landscape or plan) - as per H4D?
Also can one choose what response the histograms based are on (Factory/Repro/ReproLowGain)?
Alex
I miss sofar:
1) Ratings in the camera. By default images now come in labeled 'yellow' which is annoying when shooting into folders that contain images from for instance a H5. Besides the fact it is annoying to get used to yellow balls instead of green.
2) audio feed back. I miss my sounds. For capture done, turning off the body, etc.
3) configuration via Phocus
4) I am pretty sure I will find some other things too later.
I was just doing a quick resolve comparison test between my H4D200MS (50MS + 2), & a H6D100c.
Although creating a larger file the h4D200ms doesn't capture 50% more detail, rather it's more like a 4 shot Multishot version of the 100 - resolving about 25% more detail and not suffering from moire, however the ugly halos do rear up considerably if processing in Phocus.
If Hasselblad maintain the same approach to Capture and Processing as they currently do I'd imagine that the H6D400c would be delivering 200MP resolving images at a 4Shot Multishot level of quality.
Given that 150MP single shot sensors are around the corner in the next year or so at a (most probably) lesser cost in both processing time & price, I'm not sure how much interest there will be in this 6 shot camera based on current estimated real world performance and the standard capture sensor performance of tomorrow's single shot cameras.
Neverless, this is all still hyperthetical and it would be good to see some RAW files from this camera, to see what it really can do (especially as we are more shy after our real life experiences with the rollout time of the 100c)
Alex
Hi Alex,
Why just a 'quick test' , how did you test and can you show us pics to explain what you saw in your comparisons?
The H4D 200MS was a CCD, I presume, that you place against a body with Cmos and 2 generations later...
To be objective one should compare the evolution between a 'next' generation. Like H5D-200MS vs H6D-400MS. Wouldn't this be more correct?
My2ç
Hi Domip,
Sorry it's taken a while to reply; it's been very busy past week.
Quote from: Domip on January 20, 2018, 07:41:04 PM
Why just a 'quick test' ,
The courier dropped off the camera late on Friday & I only had 30mins to check it over to make sure all was running OK before having to head off to an engagement.
Quote from: Alex on January 20, 2018, 01:52:05 PM
doing a quick resolve comparison test
The resolving power between the two cameras was my interest here: I know that a 6 shot 100MP CMOS is going to be very similar to a single shot 100MP CMOS in terms of colour etc, just like with the CCD & 50MP CMOS versions. The point was if and to what level the 50MP sensor coupled with the piezo 6 shot technology could surpass the resolving power of the higher resolution 100MP sensor; this would give me an idea as to how the 100MP would act if using the same 6 shot technology. As Hasselblad didn't mention anything new about their 6shot process, I'm presuming it'd be the same as in 3x previous versions
With 150MP sensors just around the corner in Q1 2019 and 200MP probably not too far away, it's worth thinking about (for those that do static object photography), what the true quality of the 6 shot technology would be for the H6D400MS and thus it's investment life span compared to single exposure/shot cameras. From looking at the couple of test images of the 50MP x 6 vs the 100MP x1 images, I'm expecting that it could easily hold its own against a 200MP single shot and maybe 300MP: the harsh halos exhibited in the Non LightRoom 200MP test image are I feel the greatest limiter to what the camera could produce
Quote from: Domip on January 20, 2018, 07:41:04 PM
how did you test and can you show us pics to explain what you saw in your comparisons?
I tested out the H6D100c on the studio copybench with a couple of HC120I&II lenses, checked the sensor was aligned (using zig align and lens test charts placed in the 4x corners & centre), focusing (at a distance of 3metres on the central position test chart) and other tethered controls to ensure it'd all be working for the subsequent shoots the following week.
With the short time available after testing the H6D100c on the copy bench I swapped over the body with my H4D200MS, and repeated the test.
Quote from: Domip on January 20, 2018, 07:41:04 PM
The H4D 200MS was a CCD, I presume, that you place against a body with Cmos and 2 generations later...
To be objective one should compare the evolution between a 'next' generation. Like H5D-200MS vs H6D-400MS. Wouldn't this be more correct?
My2ç
Agreed insomuch as the reason I originally hired out the H6D100c was for the extra colour gamut gathering capabilities of the 16bit CMOS, which I knew the CCD would have had problems with.
However the test was not aimed at comparing the differences between CCD & CMOS sensor capabilities (Which there have been enough tests made already), and hence why the test matter makes no use of coloured pigments or shiny metals. Rather the subject matter was made up of closely paired lines at different spacing distances to compare the resolving capabilities between Hasselblad's 6shot upsizing technology and the higher resolution Single shot sensor.
I'd agree that in terms of generational proxomity it would have been nice to have compared the H6D100c with a 200C[mos] (the H5D200MS uses the exactly the same sensor as the H4D200MS), however the previous comparison tests I had made when considering the H5D200MSc didn't show up any perceived differences in detail resolve compared to the H4D version.
I hope the reading resembles some level of sense - let me know if you want the RAWs
A
Hi Alex,
Thanks for this extended explanation!
I see you did this in a very good way, and now it does make me think...
I agree that a 6shot doesn't give more resolving power over the 4shot, only a bigger file. What sometimes is needed for some subjects. And it's good to have this possibility sometimes.
But a 4shot will always be better than a 1shot, and so, a 4shot of the 100 sensor (with the H6D-400) should still be better than a 1shot on the same sensor, doesn't it? The 6shot capability is an nice extra to have if one knows that the client will need this giant file size.
Comparing with future sensors is still gessing as no one knows (okay, some do) the µm size of the pixels and their resolving power; that's still gessing...
The µm size of the pixels should still be the same as the regular H6d-100c!
A comparison of the 50MP 6x shot output sized down to 100MP - I feel that both output versions easily reach the quality of the 100MP but with compromises; the Phocus output resolves the same and more but is let down by the ghastly halos of the automatic over sharpening, the Linear DNG > Lightroom version is much smoother and natural looking than its Phocus counterpart but is unable to extract the finest hairline scratches that both Phocus can output from both cameras. Without the intrusive pre sharpening that Phocus applies to the 6shot version we could easily see larger & better quality files coming from their 6x shot cameras, however as it stands at the moment they are software limited and not worth the additional outlay compared to tiling a composited image with a 4x shot camera (but then one would need a 2x longer focal that'd be up to the job).
On a side note, I noticed that the halo effect from the sharpening that is seen in Phocus output of the 6x shot is also present in the 4x multishot versions (less amplified & harder to detect but present nonetheless when applying any sharpening), which makes me believe that the effect is not particular to Phocus's processing of 6x shot files but that it is a processing issue with multishot files in general (I'd have to check this on the processing of the Multishot Imacon files).
A thought on my comparative experiences with focusing (Live View) - despite the ease of viewing and refresh rate with the CMOS, nailing the fine focus with 100MP took 3x as long as with the 50MP; it was hard; I normally have to make 3x test shots to hit the maximum resolve from the lens, but with the 100MP, I was fidgeting around for quite a while in Live View, trying to get it to "Snap" or a least "Feel" it was at the optimum point before doing a test - sounds weird but it was if my lens was suffering from a cold or the flu - or as if F4 (wide open on the HC120 lenses) was too vague and not "open" enough - I was clicking away, listening to the focus barrel shifting, but nothing changed visually or on the focus peaking readout; the test images showed up differences so I had to keep going back to recheck (imagining where the sharp point was eg: 2x small shifts to the near etc) - Was rather quite disconcerting ???
Alex
just about to try one out but it'll be using windows 7 on an old W520 lenovo - will be trying out the USBs 3 & 3.1 if I get chance i'll try the 2.0
Tethered usage:
Had issues with the Live View (using v3.3.5), would freeze/black view occasionally, whether it be USB 3 or 3.1. Powered/Non Powered. Disconnecting and starting it again seemed to fix it momentarily - but there was definitely something very demanding going on when quitting the the "faulty" live View (all fans going, jerky cursor movements). Moving over to a modern Mac Book Pro and the problems seemed to lessen & disappear.
Live focusing is critical & Autofocus is non starter (you're pretty much -40% resolve in comparison); I can see lens profiling becoming a common request on the wish list (as well as focus stacking: DoF is pretty shallow (focus positioning on the 3rd made a big difference in getting the corners in focus))
The 6xShot 400:
I haven't properly checked the file in linear DNG, but so far there's much less Highlight / Shadow Haloing around hard edges, a lot more control, very impressive. One sure needs some higher resolving glass in front than the current run of HCs (they're really good, but this sensor combination is very demanding - a bit like that jump when the D800/E 1st came out): I'd be interested to see how BernardL's Rodenstock 90 & Rm3di make with this back.
If they can make a body that allows usage of 3rd party lenses (like the Rodie's), with an electronically controlled focus mechanism integrated into it - like the Arca Swiss R series, sensor plane focusing and sort out the niggles (especially with having to use LR or such with the 4s & 6s), I'd be happy to sign on the line (I do want much, but then so does the sensor ;D).
Nice one Hassie - be confident, follow it through and it'll kick ass!
NB oh yes and Android support so that we can USB tether it rather than the rather limiting Apple-Says-NoPad
Quote from: Alex on March 13, 2018, 07:06:10 AM
One sure needs some higher resolving glass in front than the current run of HCs (they're really good, but this sensor combination is very demanding - a bit like that jump when the D800/E 1st came out):
Saying this though I'm seeing increased detail as I opened up all the way to F5.6 on my HC120II (ran out of time to go any further), F8 loses a bit of finest detail on the tangential but not too major, F11 showed marked diffraction. As I said; these lenses are good if you find a good copy.
Quote from: mfagerburg on March 13, 2018, 02:06:28 AM
We just purchased the Hasselblad H6D-400c MS. Have set it up and I am trying to use it tethered to an older MacPro (2009) that only has USB 2. Works great for single shots, but crashes Phocus when I try a multi-shot. Does anyone else on the forum have one of these (my serial number is 29)? Wondering if I need to get a new Mac that has USB 3.
Try setting a longer delay between shots (say 20 seconds) to test if it's a USB bandwidth issue...
Quote from: mfagerburg on March 13, 2018, 02:06:28 AM
We just purchased the Hasselblad H6D-400c MS. Have set it up and I am trying to use it tethered to an older MacPro (2009) that only has USB 2. Works great for single shots, but crashes Phocus when I try a multi-shot. Does anyone else on the forum have one of these (my serial number is 29)? Wondering if I need to get a new Mac that has USB 3.
Does the crash happen (about 15 seconds) after the last of the shots has been taken?
I'm presuming this is both with Multi & 6S yes?
There's a lot of processing that happens at the end of the sequence and this does put a strain on things - its worth giving the computer a clean out (temporary files and cache).
Make sure other programs aren't running and jostling for priority over resources.
Also maybe try testing an earlier version of Phocus (I'm presuming you've been using 3.3.5); since versions 3.1.x there's been a lot more demand put on certain processes to help speed up things, however if your computer doesn't have the resources it will cause crashes.
Btw does you model allow for an express port - you may well be able to make use of a powered USB 3 adaptor to see if the USB 2 bottle neck is causing Phocus to crash - I'm theorising though so not sure - this might be just shifting the bottleneck over onto the logic board.
Sorry I can't be off more help.
I'd love to be able to try one of these on the Arca indeed. ;)
But I don't think I'll have the opportunity.
Cheers,
Bernard