I saw a Phocus video which suggested deleting your FFR files once you had imported to FFF.
I hate to delete anything, but the YouTuber claimed there was no difference, except the size of the file.
Any advice?
I believe it is just a naming convention. I do this all the time.
I believe FFF is losslessly compressed version and it contains Phocus operations applied to it.
The FFF files are smaller, not by much. 128mb FFR vs 78mb FFF?
Maybe I will keep FFR on one HD as a back up.
Quote from: Whitten on November 11, 2023, 06:56:09 AM
Maybe I will keep FFR on one HD as a back up.
That's what I am doing. I only use .fff for processing, and I keep .3FR on an external HD, just in case.
3FR files are useless when you store and backup fff files.
fff files contain all descriptions of Phocus treatment and can be read by any other software (without Phocus treatment)
The advantage of 3FR is that they can contain Phocus mobile 2 treatments that can be replicated in the Phocus desktop fff file or not depending if you check the option when importing or not.
This is a unique flexibility between mobile and desktop treatments
The FFF is a smaller file size. That's my only concern. Whatever stills or video camera, I have always retained the core, raw files.
Is there any quality difference between the FFR and FFF?
The only thing I know is that when you open .3FR and .fff in Lightroom, there is a slight difference in exposure, and you should compensate it by about 0.4 EV to get the same image.
You can't process .3FR within Phocus without importing them into .fff, as far as I know.
Yes, I think that's right.
Quote from: tenmangu81 on November 11, 2023, 10:48:44 PM
The only thing I know is that when you open .3FR and .fff in Lightroom, there is a slight difference in exposure, and you should compensate it by about 0.4 EV to get the same image.
You can't process .3FR within Phocus without importing them into .fff, as far as I know.
The difference in brightness is only visible if only one file has lens correction applied.
When I apply lens corrections to the FFF and 3FR files in LrC, I do not see any difference between 3FR and FFF. The histograms are identical.
Quote from: SrMi on November 12, 2023, 05:12:46 AM
Quote from: tenmangu81 on November 11, 2023, 10:48:44 PM
The only thing I know is that when you open .3FR and .fff in Lightroom, there is a slight difference in exposure, and you should compensate it by about 0.4 EV to get the same image.
You can't process .3FR within Phocus without importing them into .fff, as far as I know.
The difference in brightness is only visible if only one file has lens correction applied.
When I apply lens corrections to the FFF and 3FR files in LrC, I do not see any difference between 3FR and FFF. The histograms are identical.
Not with me....
??????
Quote from: tenmangu81 on November 12, 2023, 07:29:38 AM
Quote from: SrMi on November 12, 2023, 05:12:46 AM
Quote from: tenmangu81 on November 11, 2023, 10:48:44 PM
The only thing I know is that when you open .3FR and .fff in Lightroom, there is a slight difference in exposure, and you should compensate it by about 0.4 EV to get the same image.
You can't process .3FR within Phocus without importing them into .fff, as far as I know.
The difference in brightness is only visible if only one file has lens correction applied.
When I apply lens corrections to the FFF and 3FR files in LrC, I do not see any difference between 3FR and FFF. The histograms are identical.
Not with me....
??????
Strange. Have you checked that you are using the same profile? Can anyone else see a difference in brightness when importing 3FR and FFF into Lightroom?
The only difference is the white balance temperature, which is different (checked on one image only) between .3FR and .fff.
All other parameters are strictly the same. When increasing the EV of the .fff by 0.4 EV, I get exactly the same image and the same histogram.
Quote from: tenmangu81 on November 12, 2023, 09:41:48 AM
The only difference is the white balance temperature, which is different (checked on one image only) between .3FR and .fff.
All other parameters are strictly the same. When increasing the EV of the .fff by 0.4 EV, I get exactly the same image and the same histogram.
I see only a slight difference in Tint (16 vs. 19 and 7 vs 10) in the examples I tried.
You can undo all the assumptions/corrections on an FFF if you untick the box. I have changed the white balance no problem.
I find the anti-vignetting in 'lens correction' massively impacts the exposure. I find it too heavy handed and usually disable the 'vignetting' correction.
The raw data in 3FR and FFF must be the same. The difference is in compression (file size) and EXIF tags.
One annoying change in FFF is renaming the camera type from "X2D 100C" to "Hasselblad X2D 100C."
3FR has a "Color Matrix 1" tag, while FFF has an "Analog Balance" tag. This could cause a difference upon import, but I am unfamiliar with those tags and their effect. I see a slight difference in default WB.
Small differences in "Field Of View" and "Hyper Focal Distance" also exist, but those do not matter.
Sorry to be "that guy" but is there a consensus on this?
B
Sadly there is very little real world Phocus experience on Youtube. Mostly it is Hasselblad posting promo videos.
The one exception I've found is Australian Peter Coulsen. He imports his FFR files as FFF and works on them in Phocus and Photoshop. So I can only guess he thinks the quality is as good as the original FFR.
Quote from: Whitten on November 14, 2023, 09:05:37 PM
Sadly there is very little real world Phocus experience on Youtube. Mostly it is Hasselblad posting promo videos.
The one exception I've found is Australian Peter Coulsen. He imports his FFR files as FFF and works on them in Phocus and Photoshop. So I can only guess he thinks the quality is as good as the original FFR.
I believe Coulsen's use differs from what is being discussed here (and is quite common). After initial processing in Phocus, he exports the file as TIFF to Phocus.
The question here is whether we should process 3FR or FFF files in LrC and what the difference is.
One member claims there is a difference in brightness, and another disagrees.
Everyone agrees that there is a slight difference in WB (and camera name in metadata).
Regardless, it seems safe to use either of them in LrC.
Quote from: SrMi on November 15, 2023, 04:14:46 AM
I believe Coulsen's use differs from what is being discussed here (and is quite common).
You believe wrong. I started the discussion, I then mentioned Coulsen and his Phocus usage.
He has a video showing how he uses Phocus from beginning to end of an image. In another workflow he does most of his image processing in Phocus and then exports to Photoshop only for final repair work, like blemish and spot removal.
He's pretty positive about using FFF files in Phocus, but he's the only professional Ive found who has gone through his or her Phocus workflow on Youtube.
https://youtu.be/3Nk3CBBgzCw?si=8xOzOdUzmMBtlP5f
My actual point was that I wished some other pros had made videos about Phocus. I'm not into studio glamour photography.....but still I gleaned some useful information from the above.
Quote from: Whitten on November 16, 2023, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: SrMi on November 15, 2023, 04:14:46 AM
I believe Coulsen's use differs from what is being discussed here (and is quite common).
You believe wrong. I started the discussion, I then mentioned Coulsen and his Phocus usage.
He has a video showing how he uses Phocus from beginning to end of an image. In another workflow he does most of his image processing in Phocus and then exports to Photoshop only for final repair work, like blemish and spot removal.
He's pretty positive about using FFF files in Phocus, but he's the only professional Ive found who has gone through his or her Phocus workflow on Youtube.
Many people process like this, indeed. Phocus is not that bad as far as tools are concerned, but not as powerful as Lightroom, for instance. But as long as colours and lens corrections are concerned, Phocus is without any doubt the best software for developing Hasselblad RAW files (and the best to work tethered). It is not thus surprising that Coulson uses Phocus up to the limits of the software can reach, and then go to Photoshop by exporting a TIFF.
Quote from: Whitten on November 16, 2023, 12:19:21 AM
Quote from: SrMi on November 15, 2023, 04:14:46 AM
I believe Coulsen's use differs from what is being discussed here (and is quite common).
You believe wrong. I started the discussion, I then mentioned Coulsen and his Phocus usage.
He has a video showing how he uses Phocus from beginning to end of an image. In another workflow he does most of his image processing in Phocus and then exports to Photoshop only for final repair work, like blemish and spot removal.
He's pretty positive about using FFF files in Phocus, but he's the only professional Ive found who has gone through his or her Phocus workflow on Youtube.
Phocus can only work with FFF files. Once you import 3FR file into Phocus, it is automatically converted to FFF. Lightroom can work with both, 3FR and FFF files.
Does Coulson delete the 3FR files after import?
I've worked 4 times with Peter to learn his model direction, lighting techniques and Hasselblad workflow.
He mainly works tethered to Phocus what means he gets an fff file on his computer after each shutter action. (no 3FR)
He also uses automatic Phocus treatment on the fly. Each shot is automatically converted to B and W and treated with his own recipe to obtain his style (still as a fff file):
V1 engine
no sharpening
B and W conversion mainly on green channel
V1 clarity for the halo around the model
enhanced contrast
blacks protection
downcurve for the chromy look
saved as fff
After the fine tuning of the light direcly on the computer screen and RAW treatment as Coulson style B and W, all following shots of the set going in Phocus are automatically treated as the first has been manually.
After the shooting he edits the fff files and exports the selected ones as TIFF files.
The TIFF files go in Photoshop for:
background cleaning
blotches removing
dodge and burn of the skin
So far..... thanks all for the input. It is helping, and also interesting.
Quote from: Whitten on November 16, 2023, 12:39:58 AM
https://youtu.be/3Nk3CBBgzCw?si=8xOzOdUzmMBtlP5f (https://youtu.be/3Nk3CBBgzCw?si=8xOzOdUzmMBtlP5f)
My actual point was that I wished some other pros had made videos about Phocus. I'm not into studio glamour photography.....but still I gleaned some useful information from the above.
These Phocus 3.0 video tutorials (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmr0eC7LEQGWcnYq1b66tZNcj3W05Vkv8) from Karl Taylor are seven years old, but they're a pretty good introduction and broken down into short videos on specific topics.
This Phocus 3.5 webinar (https://youtu.be/_AWzDMyiE-s?si=Gj8GfFLYKKPwAeRW) is more recent and covers some of the added features in that newer version. Another of the more recent webinars covers Phocus 3.6 & Phocus Mobile 2 1.2 Updates (https://youtu.be/oel5GnQ4Xm0?si=EQ8KFr1H5a8jIewf). This webinar provides some details on the Phocus Reproduction Mode (https://youtu.be/lZthFo98HTk?si=6HZQ_r-MG90lOEVe).
There's also a series of Phocus Q&A webinars, each on a different set of topics, which may be helpful from June 2021 (https://youtu.be/vwgnfg3OsNc?si=A1rIUnuZN0_F2ykh), July 2021 (https://youtu.be/zF9VjmUp-7o?si=eQoInj_z17Qqr62x), August 2021 (https://youtu.be/y4_9x10CP9s?si=F81o3ZcxSjgmO1oI), September 2021 (https://youtu.be/Gwm-hfJ7-pE?si=hG9NtL8FtQ_GvOgS), and November 2021 (https://youtu.be/WMpP_JDVxzU?si=_A6WyXVTieVv3T4P). Check the description directly beneath each video for the topics covered in that webinar.
This webinar (https://youtu.be/xXDRyZbf5sk?si=QAGdb4QYEoY4Aodt) on "Color Management with the Hasselblad Natural Color Solution" is useful for understanding the basic principals behind Hasselblad's color system.
Yes I've watched a few, but IMO real world usage is more useful.
I understand the basics of Phocus, the tools etc.
Some of the old Karl Taylor videos miss details I'm looking for.