another tilt-shift question for X2d

[wayne1]

 
I have spent the last 6 hours reading information on this and other forums about solutions for enabling shift and tilt options for the X2D.

#1 seems to be the HTS 1.5 with and HCD lens and appropriate adapter. I would opt for the HC(D) 28mm. It seems that the cost would be around $5,000 for mint condition used components.
#2 (for me) would be to go with the appropriate adapter and a third party medium format tilt shift lens. I have read a lot about the various combinations here and about the Cambo Actus option,  but this thread is to seek some more information about option #1.

There seem to be significant advantages of #1, namely using the native shutter in the H lens (rather than e shutter in #2), electronic aperture setting, and having auto focus. Two questions that were not clearly answered by my search was whether or not IBS would function and whether metadata about tilt/shift would be sent to Phocus for corrections. Also does the X2D show tilt/shift positions on the rear screen as did the H6D? What about an HC vs HCD lens? I see that the image circle is larger on the HC lens. Is the optics as good? Is the "orange dot" version of the HCD important (shutter speeds greater than 1/800 are not critical for me).

I did find at least one user that was critical of the HTS 1.5 solution on multiple grounds, including that it was bulky, heavy, and not having high quality mechanics, ie sloppy and difficult to set shift/tilt accurately and not reproducibly. Can anyone that has used the HTS have a comment on this? JCM maybe? This comment worried me the most about going this route. I must say it does look cumbersome and unwieldy. I guess the cost can also be a disadvantage, but this is Hasselblad.

I apologize if I have missed some threads that answer some of this, but I am getting really tired!

Thanks in advance

Wayne

[JCM-Photos]

About Adapted HTS on X cameras
X cameras cannot read, show and save HTS movements datas
HCD 28 is significantly less sharp on edge than XCD21 (I own and use both)
HCD 28 orange dot maintains AF with HTS on X cameras (not on H cameras) what's a huge benefit when tilting.

If only shift is required I find a pseudo-shift by cropping the XCD21 more efficient (specially with the X2D)

[wayne1]

thanks JCM

I also have the XCD 21 and could crop (that can also serve the tilt function for extending DOF in certain cases). With the 100 mpx on the X2D that is not such a bad option.
I see that you use a Pentax shift lens but you seemed unhappy with the Fotodiox adapter. 

[JCM-Photos]

thanks JCM

I also have the XCD 21 and could crop (that can also serve the tilt function for extending DOF in certain cases). With the 100 mpx on the X2D that is not such a bad option.
I see that you use a Pentax shift lens but you seemed unhappy with the Fotodiox adapter.

It's a Mamiya 645 50mm shift lens I use on my X cameras
Yes my Photodiox Mamiya adapter has poor manufacturing (too long flange distance and no infinity) and I had to remove an internal piece that avoided to use the A/M manual full aperture preselection switch on M645 lenses.
I have a second adapter from Kipon that is fine.
Some time ago I bought a HCD 28 orange dot for future use with a HTS. By using it I found it so bulky and heavy, also less sharp on edges than the XCD21 that I no more wanted to add a HTS plus adapter.

Tilting lens doesn't increase depth of field it tilts it, it is perfect on relatively flat subjects (building walls, watches, jewels) but cannot be used for subjects that have tall front elements (landscape with a front bush for example).
The best solution for landscapes is focus stacking.

[Andy Miller Photo UK]

I have spent the last 6 hours reading information on this and other forums about solutions for enabling shift and tilt options for the X2D.

#1 seems to be the HTS 1.5 with and HCD lens and appropriate adapter. I would opt for the HC(D) 28mm. It seems that the cost would be around $5,000 for mint condition used components.
#2 (for me) would be to go with the appropriate adapter and a third party medium format tilt shift lens. I have read a lot about the various combinations here and about the Cambo Actus option,  but this thread is to seek some more information about option #1.

There seem to be significant advantages of #1, namely using the native shutter in the H lens (rather than e shutter in #2), electronic aperture setting, and having auto focus. Two questions that were not clearly answered by my search was whether or not IBS would function and whether metadata about tilt/shift would be sent to Phocus for corrections. Also does the X2D show tilt/shift positions on the rear screen as did the H6D? What about an HC vs HCD lens? I see that the image circle is larger on the HC lens. Is the optics as good? Is the "orange dot" version of the HCD important (shutter speeds greater than 1/800 are not critical for me).
I did find at least one user that was critical of the HTS 1.5 solution on multiple grounds, including that it was bulky, heavy, and not having high quality mechanics, ie sloppy and difficult to set shift/tilt accurately and not reproducibly. Can anyone that has used the HTS have a comment on this? JCM maybe? This comment worried me the most about going this route. I must say it does look cumbersome and unwieldy. I guess the cost can also be a disadvantage, but this is Hasselblad.

I use the HTS with HCD 4.8/24, HC 3.5/50 II and HC 2.2/100 and either the Adapter OR the XH 0.8 Converter, which is VERY good. I also use a Cambo Actus and their Actar 24mm AND I adapt Nikkor PC-E lenses (but their image circle is somewhat restricting).

YES the HTS rig is quite large - but it is accurate and easy to use.

I also own and use the XCD 4/21mm - The real question to the nay sayers is do they really believe that keystone adjustments in post provide anything remotely as good as making the correct adjustments physically with either a tilt shift lens OR a technical camera (like the CAMBO) - then they need to go back to school.

I recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/@KeithCooper  and reading his book.

When buying HC/HCD lenses and wanting to use them with AF it is whether or not these lenses can accept FW 19, if they can they they have the correct mechanics in them to support autofocus. They work just fine as Manual Focus and there is good electronic connections via the adapter so lens data and the leaf shutter works well -- AND it is the leaf shutter that is important here.

You really should think about the advantages and disadvantages of Leaf Shutter -vs- Electronic Shutter. For example if you are NOT shooting long exposure so just taking a normal exposure and there is movement in the frame but you are restricted to having to use electronic shutter you will see some warping.  BUT when you have access to the leaf shutter life is easier. Sure for long exposures with dark ND filters movement just ghosts out.  It really depends on what you want to shoot and what shutter speeds you may want to use. For me the HTS is YES fairly heavy but far lighter and less bulky than the Cambo Actus.   

If you want TS and want to use leaf shutters then you either need an HTS + HC/HCD lenses and an HX adapter/converter or need to go to a solution where you can trigger and sync a leaf shutter (some large format lenses have this built in) via an alpa or other technical body. THe X2D may not work as well this way - I have not tried it I am guessing one goes into bulb mode or long exposure and then triggers the shutter then closes the blub or wait for the ES to "close" but I have not played with this. I do not need to.
Don't worry about HC lenses these can be corrected in post.

[JCM-Photos]

I cannot agree with these statements !

No Nikkor F lens works properly on Hasselblad X system covering 33x44, it's not an optics problem, it's simply the little F mount that cuts the medium format image from heavy vignetting to missing image parts.
They can be used in 6x7 or 6x6 image form factors in X cameras but not in full 33x44 format.

I have all Nikkor PC-E's and have tried them on my X cameras, all are concerned.
Canon SLR lenses work because the mount is much larger than the Nikkor F.

The Nikkor 19 PC-E is the finest TS lens I've ever seen and luckily the Nikkor optical part is used in the Cambo 19mm lens with a mount that does cover the medium format.
The Cambo solutions with a Hasselblad X camera or back should be a very nice solution.
E-shutter does only matter if the subject should be lit by flash, it need continuous light (architecture or product photography is static).
The simplest and cheapest solution remains using older medium format shift lenses that always cover the 33x44 format. You can find 4,5x6 or 6x7 Mamiya or Pentax lenses or even use a Hasselblad Flexbody or Arcbody with the CFV back. Hasselblad solutions even have leaf shutter, the problem is that the back cannot rotate (built for 6x6) what is limiting tHe use.

[Helwin]

I use the HTS with HCD 4.8/24, HC 3.5/50 II and HC 2.2/100 and either the Adapter OR the XH 0.8 Converter, which is VERY good.

Andy, how does the FOV of the HCD24/XH 0.8 combo compare to that of the XCD 21?

[Andy Miller Photo UK]

I use the HTS with HCD 4.8/24, HC 3.5/50 II and HC 2.2/100 and either the Adapter OR the XH 0.8 Converter, which is VERY good.

Andy, how does the FOV of the HCD24/XH 0.8 combo compare to that of the XCD 21?

The XCD 4/21 is 17mm in 35mm eq - Angle of view (D/H/V) 105/92/75 on X2D

The HC4.8/24 is 19mm in 35mm eq  - Angle of view (D/H/V)  97/84/68 on X2D

Attaching it using the 0.8 Converter reduces the effective FL from 24 to 19.2 and the 35mm EQ to 15.1mm, while increasing the widest aperture to f/3.8 - As a result the Angle of view (D/H/V) 110/99/83 on X2D (See attached data sheet) -- which is WIDER than the XCD 4/21mm.

BUT the HTS applies a x1.5 which returns the 24mm from 19.5 to 28.7mm (HCD 4.8/24 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8 Conv)

NOTE -- the HTS data is approximate on an X2D/X1D i/ii  - as a result all numbers are approximate - but good enough for me.

[MGrayson]

I use the HTS with HCD 4.8/24, HC 3.5/50 II and HC 2.2/100 and either the Adapter OR the XH 0.8 Converter, which is VERY good.

Andy, how does the FOV of the HCD24/XH 0.8 combo compare to that of the XCD 21?

It might not be an issue in the studio, but it's worth noting - the HCD 24 is 50% heavier than the XCD 21 even without an adapter. With the XH 0.8 converter, it more than doubles the weight of the native lens.

[Andy Miller Photo UK]

Examples of set up

[wayne1]

All of this is very helpful, much appreciated. Andy, I do have Keith Coopers book and that is what got me started in thinking about TS lenses. The shift in particular will be generally very useful for me. I played around a little with the e shutter on the X2D, and while it seemed OK, even with a bit of movement of leaves from wind, it would be VERY nice to have the shutter in the lens. 

There is a mint condition HTS 1.5 for sale for $2,000, and I already have the X to H adapter, so I am really thinking about getting it and looking for a good price on a 28mm HCD or HC. Andy, is there a way to tell whether a lens can take firmware update FW19? The autofocus is not critical, but would be nice.
Thanks again
Wayne

[wayne1]

If I went with an older HC lens (FW 13) and manual focus, will focus peaking be active on the X2D?
Wayne

[grotte]

Hi Andy, That HTS setup of yours looks rather precarious to me: putting too much load on the camera lens mount. Any concerns?

[Andy Miller Photo UK]

There is a mint condition HTS 1.5 for sale for $2,000, and I already have the X to H adapter, so I am really thinking about getting it and looking for a good price on a 28mm HCD or HC. Andy, is there a way to tell whether a lens can take firmware update FW19? The autofocus is not critical, but would be nice.
Thanks again
Wayne

I buy my H series gear from the Pro Centre in London UK and they check and update the firmware before I buy from them or they do not sell me lenses.
You need to buy from someone who will do the same.  If the lens will not take the FW then the AF circuit has to be updated in the lens and this is expensive. I would not buy from a private seller unless they can prove to you that the firmware is already at least 18 AND that seller can/will update it to the latest version. I failed to know this when I bought my 300mm and ended up sending the to Hasselblad in Sweden and that whole exercise was expensive. I learned my lesson.   
[NOT this is only if you want to use AF -- which I do for focus stacking and the like. You do not NEED to use AF for still life/arch/landscape etc..]
I looked hard at the 28 and the 24 and ended up with the 24 - I have struggled in confined locations in the past and the 24 together with the 0.8 Converter is a good deal --- remember the 1.5X the HTS applies. So this means that a 24 may well be a better choice than a 28.

[Andy Miller Photo UK]

If I went with an older HC lens (FW 13) and manual focus, will focus peaking be active on the X2D?
Wayne

I cannot speak to this since all my H lenses are FW 19 - I would assume not, but someone else would need to confirm.