X2d jpg's

[tenmangu81]

I am surprised at your M9 failures.  I have had one now for about the same length of time with the opposite experience.  And I checked with some folks over on RFF and their experience is the same as mine.  Now you did what you did but had it been me with a camera failing like that, I would have had it repaired.  Of course YMMV

Out of scope, but I had an M9 for almost 3 years, the colours were great, remembering Kodachrome, except that I had to work a lot on them before printing,.... More specifically, the reds were very saturated. B&W were great, anyway !! And JPEGs were awful, this is well known for the first digital Leica cameras. I have no experience with the last ones.

[flash]

<snip>


p.s. I shot a pair of M9's (and nothing else) professionally for nearly 3 years. Maybe 120 weddings and 100's of commercial jobs. The jpegs were truly woeful and the auto white balance completely unreliable. As were the cameras. The only way this would have worked for me was if I only outputted b&w. Also, there are pros still shooting film, shooting large format, shooting vintage lenses and shooting 150MP Phase One backs.. So what? We all have to limit ourselves because someone thinks an M9 is the pinnacle of camera evolution? It means nothing as to what someone else is doing versus what I want/need from my gear.


I am surprised at your M9 failures.  I have had one now for about the same length of time with the opposite experience.  And I checked with some folks over on RFF and their experience is the same as mine.  Now you did what you did but had it been me with a camera failing like that, I would have had it repaired.  Of course YMMV

Really? M9 sensor failures were legendary. I had one cracked cover glass and three delaminated sensors over their lifespan. Leica even had an extended repair warranty plan in place to deal with it. I also had a shutter failure but that was something that could happen to any camera. My cameras were repaired, of course. Eventually with an upgraded sensor cover that apparently did not delaminate (I was already moving to M240's at this stage). But from Oz it could take up to four months to get a camera back from Solms (it was Solms then). because they had more cameras for sensor replacements than they could deal with. So you had to have all your own backup gear in place.

Maybe check on the numerous topics on LUF.

They also ran out of lenses to sell. The M9 wasn't supposed to be as successful as it was, and they couldn't supply enough new glass. Used prices went through the roof and Cosina doubled in size in a year as a result. Fun times.

Gordon

p.s. I didn't and still don't like the M9 colours. I was happy when the M240 came out.

[boojum]

<snip>


p.s. I shot a pair of M9's (and nothing else) professionally for nearly 3 years. Maybe 120 weddings and 100's of commercial jobs. The jpegs were truly woeful and the auto white balance completely unreliable. As were the cameras. The only way this would have worked for me was if I only outputted b&w. Also, there are pros still shooting film, shooting large format, shooting vintage lenses and shooting 150MP Phase One backs.. So what? We all have to limit ourselves because someone thinks an M9 is the pinnacle of camera evolution? It means nothing as to what someone else is doing versus what I want/need from my gear.


I am surprised at your M9 failures.  I have had one now for about the same length of time with the opposite experience.  And I checked with some folks over on RFF and their experience is the same as mine.  Now you did what you did but had it been me with a camera failing like that, I would have had it repaired.  Of course YMMV

Really? M9 sensor failures were legendary. I had one cracked cover glass and three delaminated sensors over their lifespan. Leica even had an extended repair warranty plan in place to deal with it. I also had a shutter failure but that was something that could happen to any camera. My cameras were repaired, of course. Eventually with an upgraded sensor cover that apparently did not delaminate (I was already moving to M240's at this stage). But from Oz it could take up to four months to get a camera back from Solms (it was Solms then). because they had more cameras for sensor replacements than they could deal with. So you had to have all your own backup gear in place.

Maybe check on the numerous topics on LUF.

They also ran out of lenses to sell. The M9 wasn't supposed to be as successful as it was, and they couldn't supply enough new glass. Used prices went through the roof and Cosina doubled in size in a year as a result. Fun times.

Gordon

p.s. I didn't and still don't like the M9 colours. I was happy when the M240 came out.

I am not sure the sensor cover glass failures were legendary - your term - but they were common.  And yes, Leica had a program to repair that.  Mine has the factory upgraded sensor and cover glass along with the circuit board they also installed.  And while I realize that any survey with an observation of one is faulty I can only relate my experience.  Did you use the recommended UV/IR cut filters?  The sensor did not get IR right and screwed up other colors.  The factory sent out the UV/IR filters gratis I am told.  I have these filters on all my lenses.  I believe the it is "recommended".  You can shoot without these filters.  You can chew gum in church, too, but it is not a good idea.  I can only pass on what I have learned and incorporated to improve my image colors.

My M240 is nice.  I like the larger, long-lasting battery and while the color is good I still like the M-9's a bit better. Those UV/IR filters do help.

Lenses?  Yes, Leica makes good ones.  But I like the Zeiss Sonnars and their derivatives.  Some Jupiters can be really good.  Some CV's I like, some are too clinical, not at all lyrical.  And the Skyllaney Bertele, an upgrade to the '34 CZJ 5cm f/2.0 Sonnar, is very nice, edible color.  And it works just fine on an X2D.  So Leica lens supply problems have never been a problem. You seem to have had a lot more hurdles on your course than I.

The Bertele on the X2D:  https://flic.kr/p/2oTxGvU  "If it's red take a picture of it."  ;o)

But this is about HB, right?  Cheers

[Ikarus]

Snip -

" Did you use the recommended UV/IR cut filters?  The sensor did not get IR right and screwed up other colors.  The factory sent out the UV/IR filters gratis I am told.  I have these filters on all my lenses.  I believe the it is "recommended".  You can shoot without these filters.  You can chew gum in church, too, but it is not a good idea.  I can only pass on what I have learned and incorporated to improve my image colors."

IR problem was with the M8.

I think it fair to say the split cover glass and cover glass corrosion issues with the M9 were legendary. Leica finally addressed the issue.  I have only retained my Monichrom from that series (with the new sensor, rather than just a replacement).

In terms of colours, yes the M9 had Kodachrome like colours, but the reds were challenging.  The Monochrom files are flat, and reward gentle processing.  Like Gordon, I see little point in jpegs.  I'm not a huge fan of extensive processing, but I use Leica and my X2D for the fabulous files. Post processing is an essential part of the photographic experience, as it was with film.

[flash]

<snip>


p.s. I shot a pair of M9's (and nothing else) professionally for nearly 3 years. Maybe 120 weddings and 100's of commercial jobs. The jpegs were truly woeful and the auto white balance completely unreliable. As were the cameras. The only way this would have worked for me was if I only outputted b&w. Also, there are pros still shooting film, shooting large format, shooting vintage lenses and shooting 150MP Phase One backs.. So what? We all have to limit ourselves because someone thinks an M9 is the pinnacle of camera evolution? It means nothing as to what someone else is doing versus what I want/need from my gear.


I am surprised at your M9 failures.  I have had one now for about the same length of time with the opposite experience.  And I checked with some folks over on RFF and their experience is the same as mine.  Now you did what you did but had it been me with a camera failing like that, I would have had it repaired.  Of course YMMV

Really? M9 sensor failures were legendary. I had one cracked cover glass and three delaminated sensors over their lifespan. Leica even had an extended repair warranty plan in place to deal with it. I also had a shutter failure but that was something that could happen to any camera. My cameras were repaired, of course. Eventually with an upgraded sensor cover that apparently did not delaminate (I was already moving to M240's at this stage). But from Oz it could take up to four months to get a camera back from Solms (it was Solms then). because they had more cameras for sensor replacements than they could deal with. So you had to have all your own backup gear in place.

Maybe check on the numerous topics on LUF.

They also ran out of lenses to sell. The M9 wasn't supposed to be as successful as it was, and they couldn't supply enough new glass. Used prices went through the roof and Cosina doubled in size in a year as a result. Fun times.

Gordon

p.s. I didn't and still don't like the M9 colours. I was happy when the M240 came out.

I am not sure the sensor cover glass failures were legendary - your term - but they were common.  And yes, Leica had a program to repair that.  Mine has the factory upgraded sensor and cover glass along with the circuit board they also installed.  And while I realize that any survey with an observation of one is faulty I can only relate my experience.  Did you use the recommended UV/IR cut filters?  The sensor did not get IR right and screwed up other colors.  The factory sent out the UV/IR filters gratis I am told.  I have these filters on all my lenses.  I believe the it is "recommended".  You can shoot without these filters.  You can chew gum in church, too, but it is not a good idea.  I can only pass on what I have learned and incorporated to improve my image colors.

My M240 is nice.  I like the larger, long-lasting battery and while the color is good I still like the M-9's a bit better. Those UV/IR filters do help.

Lenses?  Yes, Leica makes good ones.  But I like the Zeiss Sonnars and their derivatives.  Some Jupiters can be really good.  Some CV's I like, some are too clinical, not at all lyrical.  And the Skyllaney Bertele, an upgrade to the '34 CZJ 5cm f/2.0 Sonnar, is very nice, edible color.  And it works just fine on an X2D.  So Leica lens supply problems have never been a problem. You seem to have had a lot more hurdles on your course than I.

The Bertele on the X2D:  https://flic.kr/p/2oTxGvU  "If it's red take a picture of it."  ;o)

But this is about HB, right?  Cheers

So, I had a look on the RRF M9 forums and there are 6 topics on the first page about M9 sensor replacements. And you're having no problems, BECAUSE your camera has had the sensor replaced??? It was more than common. It was usual to have an original sensor that would be replaced. Every person I know of that shot an M9 no longer has the original sensor/glass in place. How many M9 shooters do you know with a non-upgraded sensor? Like the original one? None, I'd guess.

Yes I used IR filters with my M9's. Still have them somewhere. They weren't free though. That was the M8. Yes, they helped but I still never liked the M9 colours. But I never liked Kodachrome either. Same on my S2 vs S007. Preferred the latter by some margin. I still have my S2 and 007. Should get it out for some B&W shooting. I really did like the M(240) and still have my M-P black paint.

In early Leica release literature, they claimed that IR cut filters were no longer necessary. But they really did help. It was better than the M8, though. Also it's known that the new cover glass was modified and had a slightly stronger IR cut built in. Filters still helped though.

Where I really did like the CCD sensors was for monochrome conversions. I love the contrast. I see why people keep their M9 Monochrom's. But I'm perfectly happy with my M11M and M11.

Gordon

[tenmangu81]

I had an M9 for about three years, and it died from the delamination of the sensor, as many of them did. It was before the new sensor came up, and I was proposed by Leica a deal : they exchanged my corroded M9 with an M-P 240 (I had to pay an extra, however), that I kept for more than 5 years, and I was very happy with it (battery life, reliability, weight, quality of the lenses,...)..... until I discovered the Hasselblad X1D II.
Today, Leica M series seems good to me for monochrome digital and for film cameras. If I had to buy an other Leica M, it would be a film one.

[Whitten]

I had a film M6 in the 1990's.
Recently I've had an M8 and an M240. The M8 was ok, I didn't find it mysteriously magical. In the end the crop factor was tiresome, the need to use an IR filter most of the time and it felt like a ticking time bomb that could fail at any moment.
I traded it for an M240. It was also OK, but I found the raw files (let alone jpegs) were over warm, tending to orange. I spent ages fiddling with the white balance and adjusting the colour balance.
I traded the M240 for an X1DII and I have never been happier. the images (RAW) out of camera look amazing. I make small adjustments and I am done.