fff file format question

wayne1 · February 22, 2022, 01:36:56 PM

When a *.3FR native RAW file is imported into Phocus and finally exported as a 16-bit TIFF, a *.fff file is also saved with it. I assume that this is a RAW file format that has the Hasselblad lens (and maybe other) corrections applied. Is this correct? So if a *.fff file is opened in Camera Raw, there is no need to apply further optics corrections.

Wayne

tenmangu81 · February 23, 2022, 06:31:37 AM

The .fff files are the results of the import, into Phocus, of the .3FR files. Once imported, Phocus applies the lens corrections and the sensor input profile to the .fff. The resulting colours thus comply with the Hasselblad Natural Colour System (HNCS).
You are not obliged to export your TIFF and .fff right away after the import process, and can dissociate the two operations (import into .fff and export as .TIFF).

pss · February 23, 2022, 08:59:16 AM

Quote from: tenmangu81 on February 23, 2022, 06:31:37 AM
The .fff files are the results of the import, into Phocus, of the .3FR files. Once imported, Phocus applies the lens corrections and the sensor input profile to the .fff. The resulting colours thus comply with the Hasselblad Natural Colour System (HNCS).
You are not obliged to export your TIFF and .fff right away after the import process, and can dissociate the two operations (import into .fff and export as .TIFF).

so is there a difference between 3FR files and fff in LRc?

wayne1 · February 23, 2022, 10:34:09 AM

Thanks Tenmangu81.
That is what I had hoped. So my workflow will be to open 3fr into Phocus, do some basic adjustments, export to tff and TIFF.
Next is the option to open these in ACR or Photoshop for additional processing. A lot of processing can be done in ACR and I will play with this. Which file to open in ACR? TIFF or fff? The only thing I see immediately is that you have open white balance modifications with fff, not with TIFF. Any other reasons to proceed with fff rather than TIFF?

tenmangu81 · February 23, 2022, 10:40:11 AM

Quote from: pss on February 23, 2022, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: tenmangu81 on February 23, 2022, 06:31:37 AM
The .fff files are the results of the import, into Phocus, of the .3FR files. Once imported, Phocus applies the lens corrections and the sensor input profile to the .fff. The resulting colours thus comply with the Hasselblad Natural Colour System (HNCS).
You are not obliged to export your TIFF and .fff right away after the import process, and can dissociate the two operations (import into .fff and export as .TIFF).
so is there a difference between 3FR files and fff in LRc?

Not really (I have tried only for some pics), except, maybe, for lens corrections. The colours are very similar, I couldn't make any difference. But I haven't pushed the analysis so far, and the XCD lenses are so good... Vignetting corrections effects should be visible however for large apertures if lens corrections were not applied by LrC on .3FR files.

tenmangu81 · February 23, 2022, 10:48:07 AM

Quote from: wayne1 on February 23, 2022, 10:34:09 AM
Thanks Tenmangu81.
That is what I had hoped. So my workflow will be to open 3fr into Phocus, do some basic adjustments, export to tff and TIFF.
Next is the option to open these in ACR or Photoshop for additional processing. A lot of processing can be done in ACR and I will play with this. Which file to open in ACR? TIFF or fff? The only thing I see immediately is that you have open white balance modifications with fff, not with TIFF. Any other reasons to proceed with fff rather than TIFF?

I have read very often (and I could check it !!) that TIFF files are much less flexible than RAW (i.e. .fff in our case), not only with respect to white balance but also for other basic adjustments. Accordingly, I would strongly suggest to open .fff rather than .TIFF in ACR/Photoshop. In addition, depending upon your Photoshop preferences, ACR could be skipped when opening .TIFF files !!

pss · February 23, 2022, 10:52:28 AM

LRc has all hasselblad lens corrections, and hasselblad has shared color information and profiles with adobe. I don't think they have all sensor specific information? I use LRc almost exclusively now, I don't see any difference.

the difference between working with fff files (compared to tiff) is that they are obviously raw, so all information (not just color) is set with tiff files. shadow detail, exposure, ...everything. tiff export should be done once all adjustments are set. which is why local adjustments are so important in raw developers.

JCM-Photos · February 23, 2022, 07:26:00 PM

TIFF is a file structure and not a type of content.

RAW files are TIFF's in their structure but with a non rendered content.
Each pixel content being only one color R, G or B with it's luminance and a lot of metadata necessary to the rendition. Pixel numbers have no color space and no white balance.

TIFF files have already a rendered content with each image pixel having it's own RGB values within a specified color space.

wayne1 · February 24, 2022, 12:38:57 AM

upon importing a 3fr file into Phocus, it becomes a fff file as I understand it. Now, how can I save the fff file? Earlier, when I exported as a 16 bit TIFF, it did save a fff file as well, but now I cannot duplicate this! All I get is the TIFF file.
How do I save the fff RAW file?

JCM-Photos · February 24, 2022, 03:28:12 AM

I guess you do something wrong in the import dialog.

3FR is the modern in camera RAW able to be processed in Phocus mobile
fff is the legacy Hasselblad RAw able to be processed in Phocus desktop

when importing 3FR in Phocus it is transposed in fff
I discard 3FR's once imported as fff

tenmangu81 · February 24, 2022, 05:21:24 AM

Quote from: wayne1 on February 24, 2022, 12:38:57 AM

upon importing a 3fr file into Phocus, it becomes a fff file as I understand it. Now, how can I save the fff file? Earlier, when I exported as a 16 bit TIFF, it did save a fff file as well, but now I cannot duplicate this! All I get is the TIFF file.
How do I save the fff RAW file?

In the main Phocus toolbar menu, check that File -> Export New Images Automatically is unchecked. In that case, Phocus won't export your images and you will get a window allowing to select what to do with your .fff files. After having sved your .fff files, you can use Phocus to export them in the format you like (TIFF for instance) where you like. You would then have dissociated the .fff import and the .fff export.

wayne1 · February 24, 2022, 05:55:12 AM

Thanks for the help!

OK, I did somehow manage to check the automatic save file box. Now, when I export I once again get BOTH a TIFF and fff file saved in the same folder. However, I do not get a window allowing me to select what to do with the fff file. No matter, I have and the TIFF.

Wayne

wayne1 · February 24, 2022, 07:13:07 AM

I just watched an extremely useful Hasselblad Webinar on Phocus. Clearly explains all about file formats, etc. Really worth a watch. Anyway, apparently if you process beyond Phocus with Photoshop etc, you really should export and process a TIFF file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwgnfg3OsNc

tenmangu81 · February 24, 2022, 09:53:12 AM

Quote from: wayne1 on February 24, 2022, 05:55:12 AM
Thanks for the help!

OK, I did somehow manage to check the automatic save file box. Now, when I export I once again get BOTH a TIFF and fff file saved in the same folder. However, I do not get a window allowing me to select what to do with the fff file. No matter, I have and the TIFF.

Wayne

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough : the window allowing you to choose what to do (basic adjustments) and where to save your .fff files appears on import, not on export, for which you get an other window.

wayne1 · February 24, 2022, 10:06:06 AM

Thanks folks, I think I now have it!

After watching the Webinar on Phocus, I rethought my workflow and decided to stay with Phocus as my main processing tool. The images I worked on look noticeably better compared to mostly photoshop. Since I use a PC, the dust removal and printing from Phocus is not as nice as from photoshop, so I end up importing a tiff from Phocus into photoshop for image cleanup (dust removal), softproofing, doing final corrections for the paper type based on the softproof, output sharpening (Nik) and printing.

Wayne