Stick with Hassy or move to GFX100S?

[JCM-Photos]

Nice side by side test

https://youtu.be/nHTLOFy1Sms

[edmundronald]

Here is a link to the comparison viewer of dpr set up for the Fuji 100, the X1D, the Phase 100, the Sony A7RIV.
One can see that the two 100MP samples are in a different class from the two 50s. In each class the cameras are comparable.

I think we all need to accept that the 50MP sensor class is now mainstream dSLR resolution, and that the new Sony sensors are a step forward from what was available in 2014 when the H6D-50C was  brought to market, followed by the more compact X1D. The 50MP sensor is essentially 10 years old, and has had a good run for its money, in fact it is astonishing that Hassy brought out cameras whose service life is as long as that of a car.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=hasselblad_x1d50c&attr13_1=fujifilm_gfx100_studio&attr13_2=phaseone_xf100mp&attr13_3=sony_a7riv&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=50&attr16_3=100&attr126_3=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.5003827319632818&y=0.2743235829566735

[tenmangu81]

Thanks for the comparison. It seems to me skin tones look better with the X1D, but what suprises me is the strong color banding/moiré that appears in the B&W parts of the image (e.g. B&W drawing on the upper left quarter of the image). And this banding/moiré is also observed when opening the downloaded RAW with Phocus.

[edmundronald]

The banding is color aliasing - an inherent issue due to the sampling,  and a reason why low-pass filters were often incorporated in front of sensors. Getting rid of the artifacts usually comes at some expense of image sharpness. I wonder whether there has not been some software progress which reduces banding in more recent Raw processors.

Fuji published a white paper in which they indicated they were using a slightly modified version of the 50MP sensor for the GFX-50 series.

However, my purpose in linking tothis image was not in any way to speak ill of the Hassy, but rather to show how far sensors have changed, and demonstrate that expectations have now shifted. The X1D has not become a bad camera just because the Sony A7RIV almost rivals it, but the added cost and weight of the body and lenses makes less sense for a 50MP body in 2021, while it would make sense again for a 100MP body and lens set. Fuji of course do not have a full frame body, so the 100MP is a huge step up for their users.

Edmund

Thanks for the comparison. It seems to me skin tones look better with the X1D, but what suprises me is the strong color banding/moiré that appears in the B&W parts of the image (e.g. B&W drawing on the upper left quarter of the image). And this banding/moiré is also observed when opening the downloaded RAW with Phocus.

[pss]

Here is a link to the comparison viewer of dpr set up for the Fuji 100, the X1D, the Phase 100, the Sony A7RIV.
One can see that the two 100MP samples are in a different class from the two 50s. In each class the cameras are comparable.

I think we all need to accept that the 50MP sensor class is now mainstream dSLR resolution, and that the new Sony sensors are a step forward from what was available in 2014 when the H6D-50C was  brought to market, followed by the more compact X1D. The 50MP sensor is essentially 10 years old, and has had a good run for its money, in fact it is astonishing that Hassy brought out cameras whose service life is as long as that of a car.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=hasselblad_x1d50c&attr13_1=fujifilm_gfx100_studio&attr13_2=phaseone_xf100mp&attr13_3=sony_a7riv&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=50&attr16_3=100&attr126_3=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.5003827319632818&y=0.2743235829566735

again: I really, really strongly advise to not look at these, I have no clue what distance, f stop,....they used but I have done copy work with the X and it is hard to get that much aliasing.
there are plenty raw files available for download at dpreview, this just isn't a problem in real life.
taking pictures of prints of different skin tones does not give a good idea about how a camera will handle skin tones.
if anything I look at the details in the plants and textiles/fabrics.

I happen to think that this specific 50mpix sensor seems to hit a sweet spot in terms of mpix/DR/noise. at base iso it is really clean, at 800 it has a nice film like texture. I think the only real downside is read out time. I would love to see this sensor brought up to latest tech, a little more DR, a little less noise at higher iso. not sure about PDAF, it does cut into DR, if they can figure it out, I would take that as well (but the larger lenses will never focus THAT fast anyway).

[edmundronald]

I agree the DPR shots show a lot of aliasing, but they do accurately represent resolution as can be seen from the perfectly equivalent 50MP Fuji images you can find on the site.
There are a bunch of improvements that could improve on the very good 50MP Sony sensor while keeping the resolution, but PDAF and of course a fast electronic shutter come to mind first.
However, with the way Sony works, and the fact that the 100MP sensor has DR at least as good as the 50, I think any need for those improvements will be met by the 100MP chip being adopted by Hassy.

Edmund

Here is a link to the comparison viewer of dpr set up for the Fuji 100, the X1D, the Phase 100, the Sony A7RIV.
One can see that the two 100MP samples are in a different class from the two 50s. In each class the cameras are comparable.

I think we all need to accept that the 50MP sensor class is now mainstream dSLR resolution, and that the new Sony sensors are a step forward from what was available in 2014 when the H6D-50C was  brought to market, followed by the more compact X1D. The 50MP sensor is essentially 10 years old, and has had a good run for its money, in fact it is astonishing that Hassy brought out cameras whose service life is as long as that of a car.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=hasselblad_x1d50c&attr13_1=fujifilm_gfx100_studio&attr13_2=phaseone_xf100mp&attr13_3=sony_a7riv&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=50&attr16_3=100&attr126_3=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.5003827319632818&y=0.2743235829566735

again: I really, really strongly advise to not look at these, I have no clue what distance, f stop,....they used but I have done copy work with the X and it is hard to get that much aliasing.
there are plenty raw files available for download at dpreview, this just isn't a problem in real life.
taking pictures of prints of different skin tones does not give a good idea about how a camera will handle skin tones.
if anything I look at the details in the plants and textiles/fabrics.

I happen to think that this specific 50mpix sensor seems to hit a sweet spot in terms of mpix/DR/noise. at base iso it is really clean, at 800 it has a nice film like texture. I think the only real downside is read out time. I would love to see this sensor brought up to latest tech, a little more DR, a little less noise at higher iso. not sure about PDAF, it does cut into DR, if they can figure it out, I would take that as well (but the larger lenses will never focus THAT fast anyway).

[SrMi]

I agree the DPR shots show a lot of aliasing, but they do accurately represent resolution as can be seen from the perfectly equivalent 50MP Fuji images you can find on the site.
There are a bunch of improvements that could improve on the very good 50MP Sony sensor while keeping the resolution, but PDAF and of course a fast electronic shutter come to mind first.
However, with the way Sony works, and the fact that the 100MP sensor has DR at least as good as the 50, I think any need for those improvements will be met by the 100MP chip being adopted by Hassy.

Edmund

The electronic shutter is still very slow in the 100MP sensor (14 bit: 1/6 sec, 16 bit: 1/3 sec).
IMO, the advantage of a 100MP sensor is less aliasing, if it is a concern at all, and better high ISO PDR due to dual conversion gain.

[pss]

now that we have a 100mpix sensor, Sony will never go back. people buy cameras based on mpix count, that is the reality.
for my purposes, and working with people the e shutter in the A7RIII does not work.
I am all for global shutter and we will get there eventually but I am not in any way concerned about that now. plus I have to take pictures NOW.
the GFX is a great system, great lenses and the 100mpix sensor has less aliasing. I am not a fan of color and tonality. I am also not a fan of the huge file sizes and sooting compressed adds color casts and drops IQ which makes the whole idea of more resolution pointless.
I look at the gfx 100 very much like the A7IV, more pixels, great, great cameras but they really provide more of the same, which is great but i have found something better in the hasselblad files and adding more of the same pixels does not change that.

there is a lot of talk abut aliasing, by very smart and competent people and a lot of that might be valid for some applications but for me it hasn't shown up in 10 of thousands of shots and it just is a complete non issue. there are plenty of people who use eshutter with the X system and for me that is completely pointless (or I haven't found use for it yet) so it comes down to personally figuring out if one system works for one's needs. but I definitely would not judge or make that decision based on the dpreview comparator.

[edmundronald]

I agree with everything you say.
BTW, the latest batch of Canons, ie R5 and R6 seem to have better color. I think Canon has finally caught on to the fact that users want better pixels, not just more pixels.

Edmund

now that we have a 100mpix sensor, Sony will never go back. people buy cameras based on mpix count, that is the reality.
for my purposes, and working with people the e shutter in the A7RIII does not work.
I am all for global shutter and we will get there eventually but I am not in any way concerned about that now. plus I have to take pictures NOW.
the GFX is a great system, great lenses and the 100mpix sensor has less aliasing. I am not a fan of color and tonality. I am also not a fan of the huge file sizes and sooting compressed adds color casts and drops IQ which makes the whole idea of more resolution pointless.
I look at the gfx 100 very much like the A7IV, more pixels, great, great cameras but they really provide more of the same, which is great but i have found something better in the hasselblad files and adding more of the same pixels does not change that.

there is a lot of talk abut aliasing, by very smart and competent people and a lot of that might be valid for some applications but for me it hasn't shown up in 10 of thousands of shots and it just is a complete non issue. there are plenty of people who use eshutter with the X system and for me that is completely pointless (or I haven't found use for it yet) so it comes down to personally figuring out if one system works for one's needs. but I definitely would not judge or make that decision based on the dpreview comparator.