Best powerful outdoor flash option for X1D II?

[FirstLights]

Folks,
what would be the best mobile (battery) flash option for the X1D II? I want to do more fashion shoots in the sun where there is much sunlight and I want to use open aperture for soft backgrounds.
The power needs to go significantly beyond what e.g. a Profoto A1 can deliver.

I am currently looking at some t0.5 and t0.1 values for some flashes, e.g. Profoto B10 plus, Elinchrom, Godox ....
I heard of a new technology called IGBT that enables shorter flash burn times without a longer light "tailing" after the peak.

On most websites the t0.1 and t0.5 values are reviewed and compared with subject freezing in mind, i.e. shortest possible burn time at full power output,
However for fashion shoots I do not need 1:25.000 of a second...

What I am interested in is more what mobile flash device beyond 250Ws can deliver at least 1:800 or 1/1000 of a second at full power in order to be able to work with open aperture in the sunlight and still being able to set flash highlights onto the model ...

Thanks much, Holger

[OleBe]

Hi Holger,

when I bought my X1D I basically had the same question and invested in the Godox system.

My findings might be able to help you: http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=5665.0

Additional information, Godox is about to release the AD1200 Pro, which has the same 220 sec t0.1 on full power than the 600 Pros, however on a higher output, so i.e. should be about 500 sec on 1/2 power. But that yet stays to be confirmed when they are released.


kind regards

Ole

[pss]

another vote for godox/flashpoint equipment, I have been using 600 and now 600 pro heads for years now, cant wait for the 1200...
they also have 400 and now a new 300 head....it really depends on your modifiers and how much light they eat up....recycle is less of an issue with the X1D so you should be able to shoot at full power....the duration might get a little tricky, usually less of an issue outdoors when you might not notice if the entire frame is not covered (light curve and read out can make the flash coverage uneven)...of course it all depend on which f stop you want to shoot at as well...f4 at 1/2000 sec at 100 should still be ok for direct sun and the 400 and 600 heads should be ok unless you are using a large oct 6 ft from the subject....
in general more power is better which is why I am looking forward to the 1200...

[JCM-Photos]

You want the very best in terms of power and short flash duration ?

It's the Broncolor Move

[FirstLights]

Dear all, many thanks for your valuable and concise information!

And thanks in particular to Ole for the link to the previous discussion - I'll have a closer look, but at first glance I think the Godox 600 looks interesting.
Do you know when the 1200 will be released? Will it be battery powered as well or would I need a gas generator in case it's AC...?

Have a lovely weekend,
Holger

[OleBe]

Very welcome Holger.

On the UK supplier of Godox equipment homepage you will find all info you need: https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/product/citi-1200-pro-portable-pack-and-head-flash-system

However they sent a newsletter just saying will be released soon.

[FirstLights]

Thanks again, Ole,
I discovered that the Godox (AD600) system is also sold / rebranded as Flashpoint (Xplor 600 TTL), and there are rumors that Flashpoint offeres a better support ...?

https://petapixel.com/2016/12/05/dont-get-pay-700-godox-ad600-vs-2100-profoto-b1/

This is also a nice though not complete comparison to the much more expensive Profoto B1X (where I found in particular the remote transmitter insanely expensive!).

[OleBe]

Indeed this is what I heard as well.

I have 2x AD600 Pros and one old AD600. If you go this route I suggest to grab one of the Pros and additionally the extension head, so you can use it as a generator and head system as well.

The modelling lamp of the Pro is very nice, the one from the old 600 is more or less unusable...

I am somehow interested however in the new AD1200 as well for serious outdoor work, like fashion shoots.

Currently at weddings I use the old 600 outside with its' extension on a handhold boom arm and a shoulder bag. My wife is my lighting assistant in this case. And she is thankful that the combination with a collapsible beauty dish is easy to hold and carry.

[FirstLights]

Hi Ole,

just looked at your earlier post.
I am also intending to use the 3.2 / 90 mm (and also my adapted HC 150) for my fashion pics.

The power of the AD600 is impressive and you are right, both settings
B0000922.jpg 1/200 sec / flash on 1/1 power (t0.1 / 1/220 sec)
B0000928.jpg 1 / 1250 sec / flash on 1/4 + 0,3 (t 0.1 1/1196 sec)

look very suitable to me.
Great that you give t0.1 values, so I can easily use (with open aperture) 1/1250 with the XCD 90 and 1 / 800 with the HC 150.
Thanks again, this was very helpful.

But does one really need an AD1200? That will probably only increase bulk, weight, and cost for one stop or so?

What is the max. workable distance to your wedding subjects with the XCD 90 mm and one AD600? Are full body shots possible?

Holger

[Monsieur Paparazzo]

Hi,

I use the A1x with the remote. The flash is quite powerful : I took exposure measurement on a wall and obtained the same power as a B10. I m also satisfied with the stability and the portability.

Perfect for me when i need a 1 source mobile setup.

Kr
Régis

[OleBe]

Agree on the added bulk factor. Do not think that more power is needed outside usually. Let me explain why.

Actually my test was to find out the maximum on power vs shutter speed. Usually I dial in these settings (1 / 1250 sec / flash on 1/4 + 0,3 (t 0.1 1/1196 sec)) in only on a sunny day which usually overexposes the subject and then have to dial the flash power down.

So yes, the AD600 is powerful enough and also yes on full body shots. Have attached an example from one wedding.

In that example my wife was holding the flash just left out of the frame towards the beach chair and the bride and groom. Was more than enough light to fill up the scene nicely and underexpose the sky as I happen to like it.

[pss]

I prefer flashpoint to godox since any repair/exchange goes through adorama directly, which makes it much easier and probably faster, if you are in the USA...they also give an extra 2? years of warranty....I have owned a total of 8 heads and never had any issues of any kind....
yes the model light of the 600 pro is very nice, overall the 600 pro is the best and most versatile head on the market today, beats anything from profoto, broncolor,...

somebody mentioned the broncolor mobil packs, I was broncolor my entire life, bought my first system in the 90s....had a few profoto kits in between....the broncolor mobil was my last broncolor purchase...I still cannot believe I spent that much on something like that....I actually bought my first flashpoint heads because the mobil needed to go to NJ FOR A FIRMWARE UPDATE! yes....anyway....I think the shipping cost more then one of the 600 heads I bought at that point....never used the mobil after that....3 600 heads (even the older ones) gave more power (with the 1200 adapter) recycled faster, were smaller, lasted longer, were lighter, and most importantly (then) had HSS and not broncolor's own HS version of a loooong pop which creates all kinds of color and coverage issues....a nightmare....

the 1200 is supposed to be out soon, comes with battery (actually 2 different sizes, one for flying and a larger one, brilliant) and only one head port, also brilliant, if I need 2 heads I will use 600s...1500$ for a battery operated 1200 ws pack with the bells and whistles and (most importantly) with insane power, recycling and color consistency (profoto and broncolor cant even match the 600, regardless of price)...its unheard of....I am not saying the big profoto and broncolor studio packs are not top of the line, but probably only for now because godox hasn't tried to play that field as well....for anything battery operated, its over...

for outdoor, full length, large octa, the 1200 is the way to go IMO, the only thing I dont like about large monos is the weight on top of stands or worse: booms....I end up bringing more and more sandbags...the 1200 is a perfect counterweight and the small head much easier to handle....

[FirstLights]

Thanks much for your kind replies, Régis, pss, and Ole!

@ pss: I live in Germany and to my knowledge there is no Flashpoint retailer here.  but I will contact Foto Koch in Duesseldorf who is a rather big dealer (and he offers Godox) if there is some maintenance program available,
but I do get from your experience that this brand is kinda reliable...
Just found another one - gneshop ...

@ Ole: Great shot - many thanks for sharing, this looks indeed very good! I think I will go for the 600 pro to start with!

Thanks again folks - your support was great, have a lovely evening and stay safe!
Holger