Astrophotography - Telescope Adapter?

[Chaipaval]

Hello happy Hasselbladders!

This may be a simple question but is there an off the shelf adapter to attach my X1D to a Telescope. Many thanks lis advance.

[FirstLights]

I am not aware of a "native" telescope adapter for the X1D but a simple way that works with many telescopes would be to use a cheap full manual Canon FD SLR (NOT EF, NOT mirrorless) T-adapter in combination with one the Canon FD to X1D adapters, e.g. from Novoflex.
The latter is a simple one without AF capability as focusing with a telescope is anyway manual....

Canon FD telescope T-Ring adapter, for example (look at the bottom of the list): https://www.telescopeadapters.com/content/10-canon-telescope-adapters
Novoflex Canon FD to X1D adapter: https://www.novoflex.de/de/produkte/adapter/adapterfinder/adapterfinder-produkte/camera/hasselblad-x-mount-spiegellos/objectiv/11.html

Total cost of this combo is around 150 Euros only....

For the suitable T-Mount check as well with the telescope you have in mind!

[Chaipaval]

Thank you so much - that is extremely helpful. I will try that out and report back.

[FirstLights]

You are most welcome

[glennedens]

What kind of telescope are you trying to attach the X1D to?  The Canon FD - T adaptor will work, however you'll likely get serious vignetting.  I use a X1D XCD to Pentax67 adaptor and then a Pentax67 adaptor to the telescope (I use Pentax67 adaptors made by either Takahashi or Astro-Physics for their respective telescopes).  An important factor is what is the image circle of the telescope you plan to use, if it is equal to or less than 35mm then the T-adaptor scheme will work albeit with severe vignetting - many telescopes have a hard time covering an APS-C sensor.  The Takahashi FSQ106ED has an 88mm image circle and will easily cover the XID sensor.  Most Astro-Physics telescopes also have large image circles and will easily cover the X1D sensor (AP130GTX, AP155 for example).

Using the electronic shutter works great for astrophotography with a telescope.

Kind regards, Glenn

[Chaipaval]

Thanks for your response. I am using an APM SuperED 100/800.

[glennedens]

Chaipaval, the APM telescopes are very fine instruments - the APM SuperED 100/800 is a wonderful 4" refractor.  Do you have the 2.5", 3" or the 3.5" focuser?  That telescope will be at f8, which is a bit slow for astrophotography so expect longer exposures if you are going after deep space objects, for solar system objects it will be great.

There is a dedicated focal reducer 0.75 which gives f6 at 600mm designed by Massimo Riccardi - that would be very useful if you are going after deep space objects.  APM makes a dedicated field flattener (1.0x) which you'll probably want (need?) to get, otherwise the natural field curvature will make it difficult to get round stars across the entire X1D sensor.  I can't find an APM SuperED 100/800 system chart so not sure of the part numbers. 

APM makes a medium format adaptor for the Field Flattener and as I remember versions for Pentax 67 and Mamiya 645 were available.  Then you could use either a Pentax 67 or Mamiya 645 to XCD adaptor.  The APM adaptors and Field Flattener depend on the focuser size, as I remember they use either M63 (small) or M82 (large) for all of their accessories (Field Flattener, 0.75 Reducer, 35mm and Medium Format adaptors, etc.).

If you are just going for solar system objects you could probably skip the Reducer and the Field Flattener, however they are always great to have if you get bit by the astrophotography bug.  If you go with the Reducer or the Field Flattener then the spacing (back focus) between the rear of that element and the plane of the sensor are very very critical - so it is best to use the telescope manufacturer's setup and a high quality adaptor on the XID XCD to the particular format (P67 or M645).  An error of 1mm can cause problems with fuzzy images.

I've found that 2" and 2.5" focusers are not quite big enough to allow coverage of a medium format sensor, however telescope system vary a lot and some 2.5" systems can do it.  Typically one would want a 3" or 3.5" focuser for coverage beyond 35mm film format.

Do you know what mount you'll be using?  Hope this is all helpful in some way?

Kind regards, Glenn

[Bob Andersson]

My setup is different in a lot of ways (TEC APO140ED feeding an ML 16803 via a field flattener and filter wheel) but the 16803 chip is not disimilar in size to the X1D sensor although it is square. The point to this is that I know that to get pinpoint stars in the corners (see below) for my telescope a field flattener is essential so I would be very surprised indeed if that were not also the case for the APM SuperED 100/800, especially given that they make one.

This astrophotography lark is a slippery slope, though, and at some point may want to upgrade to a dedicated (cooled) camera and a filter wheel if your telescope mount is capable of accurate long exposure tracking. Your mileage may vary but I quickly got frustrated with the limitations that a (Canon 5D MkII) Bayer sensor imposes and I'm glad I didn't spend too much money following that path. It's a wonderful adventure. Enjoy.



     NGC 7822 - clickable for the high res version

A very non-standard colour palette (red to blue by atomic weight) was used on this one because I was combining four narrowband filter images with exposures using Ha, NII, OIII and SII as well as the usual RGB for the stars. Isn't wonderful what you can see from the back garden? 

[Chaipaval]

Thanks for these most informative responses. I am pondering the route forward and value all of the information. I understand the slippery slop analogy - I'm teetering on the brink and trying to avoid a headlong fall of frustration and expense.

[glennedens]

Bob, a beautiful image of NGC 7822 and a very interesting color palette!  Yes that is slippery slope I was taking about   I'd have to agree a cooled CCD or CMOS camera (I've had good luck with either), preferably monochrome with a motorized filter wheel is the way to go, although as a start one can get nice results and a lot of learning with a DSLR or mirrorless camera (APS-C, Full-Frame or Medium Format).  Then decide if you are really interested in astrophotography, before you jump into the money pit

Chaipaval you might have fun checking out the following websites:
https://www.astrobin.com/welcome/
https://astrobackyard.com - and the related YouTube channel
https://www.cloudynights.com
https://photographingspace.com/author/dylano/ - and the related StarStuff YouTube channel

There are of course many many more

Bob, if I may ask where did you image from and what mount did you use?

Kind regards, Glenn

[Bob Andersson]

Bob, if I may ask where did you image from and what mount did you use?

Thank you for your kind words. Imaged over about four weeks from the Cotswolds in the UK in June/July 2013. Exposure time in total was about 25 hours with 18 exposures of 1500 seconds for each of the narrowband filters. I was lucky with the weather but the nights were short. About a month of post-processing followed! Sadly my pixel peepers would struggle with that right now, at least until I get some bionic eye implants fitted. 

The mount is a little unusual, an ASA Astrosysteme DDM60 Pro on a homebuilt pier. With careful setup training I have found that 1500 second unguided exposures are perfectly feasible. I could ramble on but I think that doing so would test the patience of the Mods! Unfortunately the only astro forum in which I was active has long since shut down so I can't even point you to a more detailed blurb these days. 

[jwillson]

The APM 100/800 is a great scope.  That being said, I would not recommend heading down this path of pairing it with the X1D. 

First, the good news:
- Assuming you have the 3" Feathertouch focuser (or the 3.5"), the imaging circle is from the lens itself is likely large enough to support a 44x33 sensor without the draw tube vignetting
- The telescope itself is of excellent optical quality, so if everything lines up perfectly, you will be "good to go"

Now the bad news:
- The scope is relatively slow for astrophotography.  This isn't a problem with a "galaxy" or "planetary nebulae" scope, but 4" refractors are usually better suited to larger fields of view; most astrophotographers prefer a bit more aperture for focal lengths over 600mm.  Not a disaster, but something to be aware of
- If you didn't already know it, getting accurate tracking at this sort of focal length for the multi-minute exposures you will want to take requires a good mount (really good) and an autoguider.  If you already have a really good mount, great.  If you don't... That will cost more than your APM 100.  An autoguider isn't all that expensive--you can use a simple 50mm finder scope coupled with a planetary camera.  Still, it's one more layer of complexity, but it is absolutely necessary for deep sky imaging at 800mm focal length.
- You're going to need a field flattener and for such a large chip you're going to need a fairly large/fairly expensive one.  The APM flatteners designed by Massimo Riccardi have a good reputation, and the model 2 will likely be a good match for your scope.  I think they are about 600 USD.  Check with APM.  Since it's to fit one of their scopes, there is a good chance they will be able to give you the appropriate backfocus spacing
- Speaking of backfocus spacing, that's going to be a challenge.  The APM flattener can just cover a 33x44mm chip, but you'll need something larger than a Canon T adapter.  The idea of using the Pentax 645 adapters seems reasonable, but the backfocus will be wrong.  You'll also need to contact Precise Parts (if you are in the US) get get something custom made.  Spacing is going to be pretty finicky--within a millimeter or so--if you want sharp stars to the corners.  I don't even know where you would find the amount of backfocus consumed by the X1D, then you'd have to add whatever adapters you are using plus whatever part you get from PreciseParts.  This is probably possible, but not easy. 

Don't even think about using a flattener/reducer with your scope to cover a medium format sensor.  If you were thinking about a 4/3" sensor or an APS-C sized sensor, sure.  44x33mm?  No way.

Make sure you know what you are getting into.  If you aren't sure you want to head this way, pick up a cooled 4/3" camera from ZWO or QHY, any decent quality field flattener intended for your focal length scope (the Riccardi flatteners would certainly qualify), and you might be able to find a standard adapter to work with the astronomy camera.  You can get a good quality cooled CMOS camera for under 1,000 USD these days that will be easier to use with your telescope and will likely produce better results (with fewer megapixels) than the X1D.

[Bob Andersson]

You'll also need to contact Precise Parts (if you are in the US) get get something custom made.  Spacing is going to be pretty finicky--within a millimeter or so--if you want sharp stars to the corners.  I don't even know where you would find the amount of backfocus consumed by the X1D, then you'd have to add whatever adapters you are using plus whatever part you get from PreciseParts.  This is probably possible, but not easy.

Great advice. Precise Parts ship pretty much worldwide. I've bought a couple of adaptors from them over the years and they have been absolutely first rate. Recommended.

[Lakesnlugging]

I recently bought an X1Dll primarily for landscape photography, but with the current lockdown its doing (rather experimental) astro work from my light polluted back garden.  Its menu system, and very short lens mount to image plane distance make it great for attaching to a telescope, albeit a wildly extravagant choice pricewise. I have fixed the camera body to a short piece of angle iron  via its tripod bush and this to a very chunky home turned eyepiece adapter  with a 1/4" bolt in each.  (Secure albeit ugly)  The telescope is a Takahashi Epsilon 160 F3.3 , these were designed to cover 35mm film.  The flattener to image plane distance is very close to recommendations by fluke.  I have just started turning an adjustable spacing adapter that should not vignette, but that's another project.  I also have an Astro Physics AP130GT, which is my favourite telescope.  I have found that this however needs the AP flattener to fully cover even crop sensors sharply.  Something that needs to be said however is that most astro subjects are quite small and therefore many dedicated astro cameras also have quite small chips.

[Frankvth]

The telescope is a Takahashi Epsilon 160 F3.3 , these were designed to cover 35mm film.  The flattener to image plane distance is very close to recommendations by fluke.  I have just started turning an adjustable spacing adapter that should not vignette, but that's another project.


Since we're a bit further down the road, did you manage to get some nice exposures with the epsilon? or did you end up going a completely different road?