Lunar

[Greg]

Does anyone else find it interesting that Hasselblad has not mentioned (to my knowledge) anything since Photokina about the new Lunar camera, other than the Chairman's defense of such a goofy product?  Is it me, or does anyone else find it interesting that a fancy housing cannot be produced for proven technology that already exists?  The camera it is purported to house has been on the market for months.  In the world of electronics, technology is obsolete when it is released, so by the time this camera comes to market it will already have whiskers!  I know I waited nine months from order date to delivery for the H4D60, but it used a Dalsa sensor rather than Kodak.  That must have taken some serious work to overcome technological hurdles as well as color adjustments and programming.  If the Lunar is using cutting edge technology, it certainly would be in the best interest of Hasselblad to publicize it to the fullest extent.  For this reason, I personally do not believe the Lunar possesses one ounce of new technology.

Most likely, no one on this forum is interested in the Lunar, and it was introduced to appeal to a totally different audience than that found here.  However, we all know the need for Hasselblad to generate revenue to continue to exist and produce and support the cameras we use.  I just find it difficult to believe this camera will do anything to accomplish that goal, and in fact will, in my opinion, simply tarnish the Hasselblad brand.

Greg

[NickT]

Greg I think you are right. If I remember correctly the Lunar is a Sony Nexus 7 at heart (isn't there a 9 out now) with various custom bits added.

Hasselblad has a long tradition of custom cameras, not just the Ferrari H4D40 but gold plated ELMs and leopard skinned 503s and I respect their desire to monetise the brand however the Lunar just won't do it IMO.

Nick-T

[Greg]

Nick,

Your comment that they "desire to monetize their brand" is an idea that we all can embrace.  However, using old technology, a less than full frame sensor, a really cheesy design, and charging a king's ransom hits all the bases of poor taste.  In my opinion, Hasselblad has cheapened the brand considerably by using their rich heritage to sell their soul to the devil.  Partnering with Sony could be a wonderful thing, but Hasselblad cannot win the support of existing customers or win new customers by offering such a lackluster offering as the Lunar.  I recommend less bling and more zing.  On the Leica Rumors site I saw a Hasselblad H lens attached to the new Lunar camera???  How much more appealing would it have been if the sensor were at least Full Frame or between FF and MF.  After all, the sensors are out there.  My hope is that Hasselblad has shot themselves in the foot rather than in the head.

Greg     

[fotografz]

Recently, a friend asked me to evaluate his NEX-7... which I've had now for 2 weeks.  It is a camera that is worth about what Sony asks for it ... barely. With an interface more computer game than serious photo tool, I find there is very little to recommend the camera. It produces exactly the look and feel you'd expect from a APSc sized sensor, and the higher ISO performance is neither the best or worst available in that category of camera.

Standard lenses available are mediocre, with the Zeiss made 24/1.8 being decent. AF is nothing special, slowish compared to 35mm DSLRs. I did a fair amount of testing using my adapted Leica M ASPH optics ... which is about as good as it'll get IMO. One can also adapt the Sony Alpha A mount AF lenses many of which Zeiss makes.

Considering that Hasselblad has announced a $6,500 price for this camera, and the Leica M-240 is just a few months away from production run FF 24 meg CMOS sensor with OVF Rangefinder, and EVF with focus peaking, for $500 more, it seems doubtful that even the stupid rich will buy a Lunar.

Hasselblad has never been all that great at selling special edition cameras, even cameras a photographer already wants. Leica makes a special edition, and the entire production run is gone before the first one is produced.

The other Sony camera that Hasselblad mentioned as a Lunar model was the Sony A99 ... A camera I currently use for 35mm DSLR work. It is already out, and the Lunar version is just a drawing.

I hope the relative silence on the Lunar subject means they are having second thoughts and may be willing to cut their losses before further work financially sucks them dry.

-Marc

 

[Greg]

I hope the relative silence on the Lunar subject means they are having second thoughts and may be willing to cut their losses before further work financially sucks them dry.

-Marc

 

That was exactly my hope as well, but I rather doubt they can back pedal after such a splash at Photokina.  After all, egos are involved.

Greg

[davidthescot]

I hope the relative silence on the Lunar subject means they are having second thoughts and may be willing to cut their losses before further work financially sucks them dry.

-Marc

 

That was exactly my hope as well, but I rather doubt they can back pedal after such a splash at Photokina.  After all, egos are involved.

Greg

Egos canbe fired just like ordinary folk and some say they should in this case

[Ralf Mueller]

The damage has been done IMO. I put some money aside for an upgrade of my H3DII prior to photokina but will
stop any further investment in H gear until i know where this company is headed. Might not be considered rational
to mix up Lunar announcement with H purchase, for me it is.
The money will now go into Lighting gear and most likely a new M.

Regards,
Ralf

[KeithL]

The damage has been done IMO. I put some money aside for an upgrade of my H3DII prior to photokina but will
stop any further investment in H gear until i know where this company is headed. Might not be considered rational
to mix up Lunar announcement with H purchase, for me it is.

Pretty much sums it up.

I've been a Hasselblad devotee and user for more years than I care to remember. I've also put money aside for future purchases of equipment; that money will now be going to other manufacturers. I can no longer have confidence in the future of a company that thinks the Lunar is a good idea and the way forward.

Really painful to post this message here. Sad times.

[Greg]

Keith and Ralf,

Exactly my position.  Prior to Photokina, I had been thinking how to break it to my wife that I might need the new camera about to be released by Hasselblad.  Afterward upon discussing the situation with my wife, SHE suggested I get on a waiting list for the new Leica M.  And I have been a loyal owner of Hasselblad equipment since the early seventies.  I am now hoping and praying for the survival of the company.  After Photokina I was just plain mad, and that has sort of morphed into sadness.  Ralf, I think it is absolutely rational to consider the Lunar announcement with the future survival of the company.

Greg 

[KeithL]

Afterward upon discussing the situation with my wife, SHE suggested I get on a waiting list for the new Leica M. 

Greg, I was a hair's breadth away from joining you on that list when I discovered the much vaunted liveview wasn't scrollable. Duh! Can't any of these manufacturers get it right?

[rsmphoto]

Funny you are saying this.  As a satisfied owner of an M9, I chose to buy a demo S2 rather than upgrade my H3DII-39 for similar reasons, and I find that for me, it was a wise choice.

One wonders about the process they use to make these path choices at H, and that no one up there had the sense to say, "Wait, let's reexamine this decision."  

Richard

[fotografz]

Afterward upon discussing the situation with my wife, SHE suggested I get on a waiting list for the new Leica M.  

Greg, I was a hair's breadth away from joining you on that list when I discovered the much vaunted liveview wasn't scrollable. Duh! Can't any of these manufacturers get it right?

Hi Keith! What do you mean "not scrollable"? Do you mean you cannot zoom in, and scroll to focus at 10X ... really?

Back on subject ...

Yes, egos have caused the demise of invincible empires, so anything is possible.

Even if we are wrong, and Hasselblad has done its homework so the Lunar does make them money ... what effect will that have on the MFD products we all favor?

IMO, the company had a chance to add innovations to the H system with the H5, like they did with TF on the H4. Had they made the H5 a dual shutter camera like the S2 and new S, and increased the resolution of the LCD, along with the other incremental improvements they did make, upgrading would have been an easier decision. Now, I'm not so sure.

I've had a Leica S2P for 2 years now ... I do not confuse it with my H4D/6o which is in a different IQ class, and much more adept in the studio.  However, since I can now use all of the H lenses on the S2, and finally am getting the CS for FP exchange lenses that sync at 1/1000 ... the versatility of the S is compelling while the practical needs for my H is waining.  

Maybe it is time to reexamine my own decisions going forward since apparently Hasselblad is not. I will admit that my fondness for the brand, the many years the products have relentlessly served my needs and still do, clouds those decisions. I'm not sure I can let go even in the face of logic and clear reasoning.

-Marc

(P.S., Frankly, I'm glad I am winding down my career rather than being in the middle of it).

[KeithL]

Hi Keith! What do you mean "not scrollable"? Do you mean you cannot zoom in, and scroll to focus at 10X ... really?

Hi Marc

The M liveview allows you to zoom into the center of the image but not scroll around the image. I asked if this could be overcome with a firmware update but it appears it is a hardware issue. So it's confirmation of focus in the center only!

Really, unbelievable, Leica introduce a potentially genre expanding camera that could have been suitable for tripod based applications and then hamper it with this oversight/limitation!

EDIT:

Marc, I've since learnt that it's a limitation of the sensor.

[ghoonk]

Egos aside, I don't really care too much about new Hasselblad products like the Lunar or the H5D. My H4D-40 still works the same way as it did when i bought it, and that's fine with me. I would love to see Hasselblad come up with something to meet the new Phase One IQ260 and IQ280 backs (I don't like how the DF handles) - on board wifi, GPS, 1 hour exposures, Live View, touchscreen with high res LCD with focus masking and warnings.

I have the M9P and Monochrom, and am still unconvinced about the new M. Between the two, my Monochrom sees the most use, I like that it is capable of long exposures up to 4 minutes, similar to my H4D-40

[Dustbak]

Yeah the IQ260 appears to be something pretty amazing. 1 hour exposure, 13.5stops of DR, Wifi' weather sealing, étc.. I certainly hope HB will have access to the same sensor of the IQ260.

It is just that that DF body is still a piece of crap and using the IQ on a H4X is something I would not want to do....