H4D60 Firmware R500 available for download

[alexkent]

Why do you think, the correction is only gross with Phase/C1? What are your arguments that a correction with the HTS is better?

I think David means 'gross' as in major, obvious, large.

The argument for the HTS is that optical corrections are better than digital.
You can test this yourself by taking an appropriately perspective-corrected shot with the HTS, then shoot the same frame (camera in the same position) without the HTS and correct the perspective by distorting the image in Photoshop.

I do not have an enormous amount of experience with the HTS, but I do have of Photoshop. Massively distorting the entire image to correct perspective is always 'destructive' to the image. You have to either scale down the image (distort smaller then crop) and loose a lot of pixels, or maintain the image size by scaling some areas up massively, thus making them soft. You said that the HTS is 'sharp, sharp, sharp', correcting perspective in PS (or any other software) is not.

alex.

[David Grover]

Yep!  Thanks Alex. 

[Fotograf]

Why do you think, the correction is only gross with Phase/C1? What are your arguments that a correction with the HTS is better?

I think David means 'gross' as in major, obvious, large.

The argument for the HTS is that optical corrections are better than digital.
You can test this yourself by taking an appropriately perspective-corrected shot with the HTS, then shoot the same frame (camera in the same position) without the HTS and correct the perspective by distorting the image in Photoshop.

I do not have an enormous amount of experience with the HTS, but I do have of Photoshop. Massively distorting the entire image to correct perspective is always 'destructive' to the image. You have to either scale down the image (distort smaller then crop) and loose a lot of pixels, or maintain the image size by scaling some areas up massively, thus making them soft. You said that the HTS is 'sharp, sharp, sharp', correcting perspective in PS (or any other software) is not.

alex.

Make a test in reality side by side - you will be surprised ! I admit in some special situations (huge tilt) you can be slighty better.

How does this help if I need 28mm?

still color cast issues...

still handling issues...

[David Grover]

Why do you think, the correction is only gross with Phase/C1? What are your arguments that a correction with the HTS is better?

I think David means 'gross' as in major, obvious, large.

The argument for the HTS is that optical corrections are better than digital.
You can test this yourself by taking an appropriately perspective-corrected shot with the HTS, then shoot the same frame (camera in the same position) without the HTS and correct the perspective by distorting the image in Photoshop.

I do not have an enormous amount of experience with the HTS, but I do have of Photoshop. Massively distorting the entire image to correct perspective is always 'destructive' to the image. You have to either scale down the image (distort smaller then crop) and loose a lot of pixels, or maintain the image size by scaling some areas up massively, thus making them soft. You said that the HTS is 'sharp, sharp, sharp', correcting perspective in PS (or any other software) is not.

alex.

Make a test in reality side by side - you will be surprised ! I admit in some special situations (huge tilt) you can be slighty better.

How does this help if I need 28mm?

still color cast issues...

still handling issues...

If you need that kind of wide angle then you are better off with an Arca / Alpa / Linhof.

Color cast issues if any can be corrected easily with scene calibration.  There will still be color cast issues with the above cameras.

Handling?

[Fotograf]

Handling?
Handling!!!

A. If you do not need 28mm

A1. use MFD + 1-click correction
* come along with your MDF and tripod
* point (tilted)
* shoot
* 1-click correction - finish!

*** 20 minutes ***


A2. use MFD + HTS
* come along with MDF and HTS and tripod and computer for tethered shooting
* install computer for tehtered shooting
* shift your camera exactly
* do scene calibration
* do focussing manual
* shoot
* check carefully you can definitely deal with color cast and focus quality
* uninstall equipment
* make monthly payment for your HTS 

*** 1 hour ***




B. If you need the 28mm

B1. use MFD + 28mm + 1-click correction
* come along with your MDF and tripod
* point (tilted)
* shoot
* 1-click correction finish

*** 20 minutes***


B2. use tech camera
* load your car with big bags of your tech camera and computer equipment
* find parking near location
* unload car
* install your tech camera
* install computer for tehtered shooting
* shift your camera exactly
* do scene calibration
* do focussing manual
* shoot
* check carefully you can definitely deal with color cast and focus quality
* uninstall equipment
* load your car
* pay assistent 
* make monthly payment for your tech equipent 

***  3 hours ***

Save money, time, frustation by a simple software upgrade

[David Grover]

I think you are forgetting about Depth of Field control, as well as perspective correction.

Personally, I would disagree that you need to shoot tethered to work with the HTS.

[Henry]

David,

Great new features for the H4D-60!  Would it be possible to extend the grip display to the back panel for other users (like my H3DII-50)?  I for one would really welcome that.  Thanks in advance,

Henry

PS Good to see you at the Martin Evening seminar!

[Fotograf]

Michael, I'm not following, P1 says they have perspective control in their back? Is that what you are comparing to the HTS?

;d

Yes, you can tilt the back while shooting and the correction of the perspective  is calculated by one click in capture1 as the numerical tilt data of the shoot implemented into the raw file. I will test phase's ability next week and will come back with results.

For me this is the logical development. Before someone demonize this, (s)he should give it a try. After testing ptgui for calculating the stitching of pics from a rotating base (yes ptgui interpret H4D-60 data correctly), I sold my tech camera stuff which I had kept for stitching the orthodox way (shifting the back).

I think it is clear to everybody in this community, that HTS or a tech camera is still needed for several solutions, but I think not for the problem of tilting the camera.

Michael

[Fotograf]

Michael, sorry, I did not know P1 did that. You're right, don't knock it unless you've tried it.

I do disagree with you on the HTS needing other solutions, if I understand you correctly, I'm working with it in the field all the time. Perhaps I'm missing your point. I find it offers me a great deal of creative latitude.

I'm also not happy with the idea of software altering the image in ways other than darkness/lightness or color. I am not sure why, but I work from the viewfinder so much that I may not be able to "see" the way the software will alter the file unless I can see it before clicking the exposure.

Will you be able to post the results here?

;d

Derek,

I hope I will be able to come back with results next week.
As you showed your workflow recently, I agree the software is not a solution for you.
But for photographers who just want to correct a tilt of the camera it is an amazing opportunity.

Michael

[Dustbak]

I agree with Michael. This is a great way of getting rid of that little bit of tilt you might get that you want to see corrected. It is something that IMO could be implemented in Phocus as well when the data that derives from the leveling tool can be accessed. Surely getting the camera completely level is the best way to go but in all those cases that this is not possible or when you make a small mistake a feature like this is mighty handy.

[Fotograf]

Derek,

It's a bit confusing: avoiding to tilt the camera can be done by shifting the lens - this is, what phase back/C1 should be able to replace. I think simulating a tilt of the lens in the computer would be much more difficult as you would need shots of different focussing/DOF.

Michael

[Dustbak]

Mine too but I found the bubble levels are not always entirely accurate, they are too small to be completely precise. Also you sometimes have to tilt a bit due to circumstances (eg. when you are backed into a wall with no more room to move). I am talking about your example nr. 1 BTW, the nr. 2 would be next to impossible to do via software.

[adrian]

Hi
I have downloaded the firmware - live view works but cannot seem to get the spirit level or lcd readout happening on the back.
I haven seen any instructions apart from 'simply press i'


ARCA

Another issue aside form this is regarding my Arca Swiss system.
I have been sucessfully using the 39 back on the arca rotaslide back  - yet i get the new 60mp and it doesn't fit. in fact the clip is now slightly bent out trying to fit .
Anyone using the same??
Thanks
Adrian

[Dustbak]

Yeah, I did the same thing. Hence the RTFM remark. You need to download 3 firmwares and install all 3 of them (back, body & viewfinder). They are all on the Hasselblad site, after the first firmware you need to scroll down to get to the other firmwares.

[Fotograf]

Derek,

that is exactly what I am thinking about! First, because I own all H lenses. Second regarding the quality of the H lenses, I expect the same: they can handle the IQ180. And I also agree that the lenses for the Phase DF won't be complete before the end of 2012. The only disadvantage of this route is that I will not have a 28mm. But once the lenses are complete I can change from the H-mounted to the Phase mount for free (Phase policy!).

Good question regarding the tilt compensation, but I expect - as the Phase back is more autonomic - that the tilt data are directly integrated in the exif of the single picture and C1 will read it from there. Then it will work with H1/H2, too.

Shoot out is planned for Wednesday, but at the moment it is raining all day.

Michael