I know you will grill me...

[jeff.grant@pobox.com]

After all this kerfuffle, am I right in assuming that this forum is the last bastion for unbiased info for Hasselblad users. LULA always, and GetDPI more recently seem to display Phase bias. There hasn't been much of interest on Hasselblad at GetDPI for a while other than the sold thread.

I wonder whether the bias has an impact on real sales or just the tyre kicker sector. I may be dumb, but, as a very happy H user, I am extremely surprised at the reaction to this sort of news about Hasselblad. Maybe all the H users are out creating images?

[David Grover]

But not all of our clients want 80MP.

I do not like this marketing excuse for not having a mega-pixel chip size equal to or greater than the competition.

As a prospective customer I'd think it's lame and sad.

Instead I'd talk about all of the other technologies Hasselblad has to offer, among them being TF, HTS, a full lens line up, integrated body platform tried and tested for 10 years (in its 5th generation), a 200mp MS back  and so on. P1 has nothing in comparison and it'll only be a matter of time until Hasselblad develops the next size chip.

But then again, I don't work for Hasseblad, so continue saying "not all of our clients want 80MP."

;d

Hey D,

I agree really.  But there is quite a strong anti megapixel camp you come across around the world.

As you say I believe it is much more professional to talk about the photographic benefits of the system then get into these kinds of wars on the forums we speak about.

In reality thought, MP quantity is a seller, especially into the tech camera / landscape enthusiast market.

Only $2,000,000?  I must check my bank balance!



D

[fotografz]

I seriously doubt many, if any here (except maybe David) are die-in-the-wool advocates of any photographic gear, including any specific brand. If there is a preference, it tends to be one based on history, personal accomplishment, and long term success with any given system or tool.

Personally, my preference is one of balance. Is the system balanced and not outstanding in one area, and sorely lacking in another?  I have to use these cameras to do different work ... one day it may be outdoors shooting quickly and intuitively, and the next tethered in studio shooting some table-top or some such other bread & butter job that pays for this stuff. Other people may have a totally different criteria, but a balanced integrated system, ergonomic ease of use, consistency, and breadth of choices like HTS, HCD35-90 and features like TF are real world advantages for getting the most out of one very large investment. I'm not prepared to give those up to get a temporary 20 meg jump that I rarely need, and consequently be forced to use a camera and lens system I literally despise (yes, I have owed the competitor's gear, and have tried their latest ... except the IQ180 which I'll eventually try out. And yes, I have tried some of the Schneider optics which are nice but also not worth a swap compared to the more recent HC and HCD offerings). 

IMO, Hasselbald chose to maintain a balance as they moved forward, and the consequence of that may be that they fell behind in one area when allocating limited resources. Funny thing is that most professional photographers I know pleaded for an end to the Meg race in favor of more usable system features, which Hasselbald did deliver. Go figure.

I think Hasselbald has been slow beyond belief regarding their H4D/60. However, it's somewhat understandable given the company had been for sale for a while. Why would Shriro pump more cash into a company they would be selling mostly based on a brand equity? Let someone else pump the money into it. Which apparently will now be happening.

All I need is the double res LCD and the independent battery solution for my 60 and I will have a well balanced, proven kit that hopefully can continue to serve me until I decide to retire altogether, and just travel with my trusty Leicas (that were with me before all this MFD stuff, and will be with me when it is all gone :- ).

My general observation is that Phase One and it's devoted followers are working overtime to make up a very important short-fall .... outside of a small circle of photographers they have very little Brand equity, and are handicapped by a legacy camera that was always well below Hasselblad on the equity pecking order ... and still is OMHO. The Capital Investment Ventizz company isn't a bunch of idiots, they see that, and with some cash infusion can may hay from that Hasselblad equity. These guys are technologically savvy based on one glance at their existing portfolio. So, there may be a temporary gap in some areas, but my money's on Hasselblad moving into the future. 

A very similar thing happened at Leica ... they limped into the digital age with the M8 ... then Kaufman injected it with cash and wala, the M9 suddenly appeared. Now the company is making oodles of money, can't keep up with demand at all (building new facilities as I write this),  and the next M will be something to behold.

Leap Frog!

-Marc

   




   










 

[fotografz]

Well,

Marc,
8' print at 39mpx is 75 dpi - not enough for me but my biggest stitched pictures are 280 mpx (16' x 12'). A lot of my pictures are done at dynamic range of 15 to 20 f-stops that makes stitching even more challanging. Every extra f-stop is welcome.


But let's have a realistic view into the future (having in mind Hasselblad was not able to deliver a simple firmware upgrade for the H60 for more than 6 month!)

Schneider will have released 6 lenses by the end of 2011 for Phase (my personal guess). Will they stop there? When will they be able to deliver a complete lens series? By the end of 2012? Or will it take them 6 month more? How much will it cost Phase? (Not much) How much Schneider? Will it pay back? FAST!

Will Phase stop the development of their body now? Make an educated guess.

Can Hasselblad reduce the distance between theirs and Phase's backs. Can you buy this knowledge (keep in mind how many years it took Nikon to pass Canon sensors)? How much money will be needed to do it  (from the new investor)? Will it pay back in this small market? How fast? (Investors think more in time than in dividends: 30% in one year is often better than 50% in two years!).

I understand your desire for more megs given your dedicated application. I only occasionally need such a huge enlargement, and when I do it is often outdoors with moving subjects, I sometimes use Genuine Fractals or some other up-res program which requires some skill, but then doesn't all this stuff require skill?

Hasselblad's foot dragging on the 60 firmware is inexcusable. Period. It should be noted that the IQ180 has shipped without the update they require for full functionality. Lots of complaints about that on GetDpi. However, I doubt it'll take them 6 months to get it out.

You are guessing on the Schneider lenses ... and consider how much fun it must be for users to sell off all their expensive Phase lenses to get the Schneider optics. BTW, are the Schneider lenses USMs or still driven by the camera body?

I'm sure Phase will bring forth their new body. They have to because the current one is so bad. However, if speculation is kosher in this conversation, then what happens if Hasselblad brings forth a dual shutter H5?  All of my HC and HCD lenses will still work and I need not off that huge investment to use the dual shutter camera.

Leap Frog!

-Marc

[David Grover]

You are guessing on the Schneider lenses ... and consider how much fun it must be for users to sell off all their expensive Phase lenses to get the Schneider optics. BTW, are the Schneider lenses USMs or still driven by the camera body?

The "schneider" lenses are still driven by the camera body.  Therefore I am guessing they won't go too crazy on extra lenses as I would hope they would want to develop USM based lenses... which they may already be doing of course.