Mac Pro upgrades, graphics cards & Phocus

[Hywel]

Hi All,

  I have a 3.1 version Mac Pro (2x quad core xeon 2.8 GHz,8 GB of 800 MHz memory- the late 2008 spec). I've currently got an Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT 512 MHz graphics card. I've got a hardware RAID card, with the system drive as a single drive, and the data on three drives in RAID5. I'm using a 30" Apple Monitor. A fairly high-powered system, if a little behind the times.

  I spend a lot of my life watching progress bars crawl across the screen in Phocus, Aperture, Lightroom 3B2 and Final Cut Pro.

  So I'm wondering if there are significant performance gains to be had from ay upgrades, or whether I should just live with it for a couple of years until I replace the MacPro with a completely new one.

  Looking at CPU load, few of the programs I use top it out or even get close. Similarly, whilst memory gets pounded by a few tasks, it is rare to see it topped out. Disk activity looks pretty spiky in the usual picture-at-a-time batch jobs I wait for.

  So I'm guessing that a significant bottleneck may be the graphics card. Does anyone have experience of using a higher powered card or benchmarks to compare? Anyone using an Nvidia Quadro FX 4800 for Mac? Does Phocus get any significant speed improvements from that over say a ? How about LR/Aperture/FCP? Anyone know of any benchmarks comparing typical photographer type tasks with GTX 285 vs FX4800 vs Radeon HD4870 vs GT8800?

I don't mind splashing out a fair wodge of cash to make my week's work go quicker but it would need to be factors of 2 not 10%.

Anyone done a graphics card upgrade on a MacPro? Did it help?

  Cheers, Hywel

[Dustbak]

I got a flashed ATI4890 and indeed it did make Phocus go faster, especially stuff like cropping and rotating is improved. I use the Nehalem (early 2009) 2.26octocore with a 3 drive striped disk set next to an ordinary S-ata disk as system disk. I also upped the memory to 24gb which also helped.

You might want to wait for the imminent MacPro update to the 12-core.

Phocus does use all cores and threads if it can, I have seen it top at like 1400% CPU usage.

[Hywel]

Thanks! Good to know that a faster GPU has an impact on Phocus performance :-)

I'm certainly not changing the current Mac Pro at least until the next generation, as the overall performance gain won't be worth it for the current generation.

I guess what it comes down to is which bottlenecks "feel" annoying. For me, interactive performance of Phocus feels slow. Export is fine- slow-ish, but seems to use processors efficiently and can be left to its own devices. Which is a complete contrast to Lightroom, where interactive performance doesn't feel too bad, but Export is a total dog, and can't be left to it as I need to get on and process the next set. (Hooray for a proper export queue in Phocus! Wish LR had that). Aperture 3 is pretty zippy, so I'm considering going back to it for batch production, but I don't like its keywording. (Phocus definitely comes out on top there, too).

Final Cut Pro runs fine until I start applying Magic Bullet Looks. Unfortunately, I use Magic Bullet Looks for pretty much everything. So a graphics card might help here if it takes the render load from the CPU and goes like stink.

The obvious upgrade options are:
1) More Memory. Never hurts.
2) Faster GPU. The 8800GT feels like it is the underspecified bit of the system.
3) Use an SSD with fast write times as the system/swap disk.

Anything beyond that is almost certainly counterproductive and would be better waiting for a new Machine in a year or two.

Cheers, Hywel.

[alexkent]

1) More Memory. Never hurts.

If you're running any two of those apps you listed at the same time, 8GB will be a bottleneck. Also if you chose to update to Photoshop CS5 (you didn't list but i presume you use), it'll eat as much ram as you've got.
I'm only confirming what you've already said, I'd start by doubling the RAM.

alex.

[David Grover]

I would add that the 8800GT is underspec'd for a 30" display.  Its a lot of video to process there!

[Hywel]

Thanks, David. My thought was also that the graphics card looked a bit underspec compared with the rest of the setup. It is looking like doubling the RAM plus a new graphics card might make significant difference for around 600 pounds, which sounds worth a go.

I'm still not quite clear on what Phocus uses the GPU for. Does it use it for final rendering, or just for previews and interactive stuff? It would be nice to speed up the final output step, although less so for Phocus because at least I can properly queue thousands of images then click go and go to bed, ready to have the TIFFs to retouch in LR/Ap the next day.



  Cheers, Hywel.

[David Grover]

The GPU is used for any graphics based 'things'  (sorry to be technical!) that are happening in real time.  ie Zoom to 100% and adjust the sharpness and you will see the result instantly as opposed to the screen pixelating and redrawing in one step.

So any tool that adjusts the image resulting in a change on the monitor, will use the GPU.  Final output/processing is all RAM and Processor.  The GPU would play no part here.

Hope that helps!

[Hywel]

Hi David,

  Yes, that does help, thanks. Puts the extra RAM higher in the priority list than the new GPU (but only by a little).

  Cheers, Hywel.

[David Grover]

Welllllllll...

Processing you can always walk away from.  GPU based activities are nearly all when you are sat in front of.

[davidthescot]

 

Hi

I am running a Macpro with 2 x 3.2 Quad cores, 16GB, Apple RAID, and the same graphics card.  I don't have a 30" monitor but I am using a hi-res Eizo 24"

Please check this site for the best info on how to set up your Mac:

http://macperformanceguide.com/index.html

It is a subscription site but well worthwhile.  One of the things I do when starting my Mac is to boot it in 64 bit mode (press the 6 and 4 keys whilst restarting until the Apple motif appears) and I find that everything works faster.

The other thing I did was to remove all of the startup crap that seems to come with all sorts of software - check the activity monitor (Utilities directory) for what is running.  Also check your login items (Users sub directory)to see what crap software vendors have put into your system.

Finally if you are running a virus protection programme get rid of it unless you are sharing your macpro with your kids.

I find that Phocus runs reasonably fast or at least fast enough.

I am definitely upgrading when the new Macpro comes out with a fast video card but I am not using solid state drives unless as a scratch volume.

Hope this is of some small help.

Best wishes

david

[Hywel]

Hi All,

  Thanks for suggestions. I've gone for doubling the RAM and a GTX285 new GPU to keep things ticking along for now, and will probably invest in a new top-spec machine later in the year, once Apple have released the next gen Mac Pro.

  All a bit more relevant to me that it was at the start of the week, since my three year old Alienware just blew its top, badly overheated chugging through some HD video encodes, which means I have to stop using it as my email/Interweb/video encode chugger as I don't really trust it anymore. Finally got it to reboot after it had cooled down, got the final few days of data off it (hooray for backups, I'd only have lost a few days of emails and some encoded videos at worst). I've now invested in the last few bits of software needed to completely move me away from the PC and am now a 100% mac operation!

  So a second Mac is probably necessary before too long, as my poor 13" MacBook would manfully try to be a backup if the MacPro fails, but I don't fancy its chances at HD video encoding, or editing thousands of Hassleblad pics for that matter!

  Cheers, Hywel.


  Cheers, Hywel.

[arminw]

I guess so many pros are waiting for apple to upgrade their MacPro product line , which is so overdue anyways. I am still struggling along on my early 2006 model, which has just been updated with a new graphics card and 16 gig memory ! Still, it can't cope with the massive 300 mp 16 bit files that I get from my H4D50 . It's a constant battle in almost any program ( Phocus, Aperture, Photoshop ......) and crashes due to memory leak or kernel panic are part of my processing and retouching. This is something I have to live with for the moment until something new comes out. I refuse to buy any of the current models; simply, because it is now outdated technology compared to what's generally available, and totally overpriced . Good to hear though that working does get easier with a decent system.

[Phil G]

Hi I'm using a Mac Pro 3.1 Quad core Xeon 2,8GHz  12GB RAM OS X 10.6.4

I replaced the Nvidia Gforce 512MB with a   ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB much faster only down side is massive fan takes up second slot and uses both power taps and has a mini DV connection rather than two standard but drives 30" no problems

I frequently have Phocus, Aperture 3 and PS CR3 running not so much the latter

but then I don't often shoot more than 8 - 16 GB of images a time on 39D and I Process in Phocus and archive as 3f and import as referenced files in Aperture3 for DAM only gong back into Phocus for HQ furtling and export

I do have Drives 2&3 striped and do all intensive work on them

Phil

[maubwana]

hi Phil can i hijack this as you seem to know what is going on - i have a macbook pro 2.53ghz core 2 duo with 4gb 1067 mhz ddr3 (bought dec 2009) - it is painfully slow - do you recommend i get another 4gb ram or if money was no object what would u do buy the latest macbook (and pse recommend which one you would) or just upgrade the ram?

[Phil G]

hi Phil can i hijack this as you seem to know what is going on - i have a macbook pro 2.53ghz core 2 duo with 4gb 1067 mhz ddr3 (bought dec 2009) - it is painfully slow - do you recommend i get another 4gb ram or if money was no object what would u do buy the latest macbook (and pse recommend which one you would) or just upgrade the ram?

Wish I did !

Is this your machine http://support.apple.com/kb/SP503

it's the 15" which has the 2.53GHz CPU which only supports 4GB RAM  

8GB (2x 4GB) is £237 ex VAT UK from Crucial but it does not look like yours will take it

not sure if Phocus is using the Graphics memory like Aperture does will check next time I use it did not appear to in May last time I checked
re http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php/topic,510.0.html

If I was upgrading it would be another 17" but as I have no desperate need for any more speed I would be tempted to wait as there are major chip developments in the offing they may hit the market early next year but we can all get seduced by speed and the precious things we don't actualy need just objects of desire

However if you are struggling look at the refurb section on the Apple store site there are some 17" unibody Intel i7 ? which may be a typo as the latest in store is Intel i5  

You need at least 512MB graphics ram and a fast hard drive and you can always use striped eSATA externals  and latest SnowLeopard upgrade has improved things.

Not sure that helps

Phil