Hasselblad Raw as DNG?

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tensor

Hi all,

does anyone know or can imagine if it is a good idea to import 3fr X1D camera files via Phocus, make some basic adjustments, export it as DNG and doing all remaining tasks in DXO, Exposé 3, or Adobe? I see that the 3fr file is 107MB and the DNG file 70MB. The question is, how much do I loos if I am going this way?

DJPixelMan

#1
I might be wrong, but as I understand it;  you can play around with the FFF files and make adjustments all day long. But, if you export as dng, you are essentially exporting the raw file without adjustments. So you would need to do it all over again in another programme. If I am wrong, hopefully someone here will put me right.

Alex

Quote from: DJPixelMan on January 05, 2018, 10:18:03 AM
if you export as dng, you are essentially exporting the raw file without adjustments. So you would need to do it all over again in another programme.

Yep except for a few basic details to help guide the programme, you have start again from scratch. Basically except for a couple of things there isn't much gain to be had by exporting the files as DNGs and processing the RAW elsewhere. 

tensor

Ah, okay. Thanks for the information. So, this means that it is okay if I import my images via Phocus and export it as DNG without any loss of data and a few adjustments. This sounds very promissing. If this all works I am able select my favourite post processing tool to adjust and organize my photos. I think about C1 or DxO. Maybe Exposee 3 is also the right decision, because of its keyword management.

ChrisL

If you export as DNG you will loose lens corrections and much more, export as TIFF retains changes applied in Phocus at 16 bit, if 8 bits are OK then .PSD files are an alternative.

Hasselblad files from camera contain embedded data telling Phocus which lens/focus distance/aperture was used and calibration data from that particular camera, Phocus then has internal algorithms to determine how much chromatic aberration correction to apply, which distortion correction is required, and how much vignetting to remove. How the individual calibration data is used is opaque, at least to me. These are pixel level changes which can only be applied at the time the raw is being processed into non-raw file (TIFF .PSD etc.) these are corrections YOU do not apply they are internal and DNG export looses them as it is an alternative RAW file.

Alex

The big thing you are losing out on is Hasselblad's colour management algorithms which do a very very good job at getting visually pleasing colour reproduction under a wide range of lighting; with the easily managed colour reproduction section one can improve on these both with internal & external profiling techniques.

Going independent via DNG does require a lot of added work and I've yet to see comparative improvements on file conversions from their single shot camera line (for Multishot and 6shots it can be worthwhile because of Phocus's rather poor native implementation of sharpening and noise reduction from these cameras, but it is a hassle to do (adds about 2.5x time to the process)).

However the Phocus is still maturing and certain elements can make it real PITA to use (my assistant says that the shoots tethered to Capture One seemed to be more chilled out on the Nikon and I do agree in so much as it is more refined and easier to work with (although the colour management engine is comparatively irritating).
Anyways, the best way is to try out the DNG route and see how you enjoy the process and the results.

Btw: As you mentioned Capture 1; C1 will actively block files made from Phase One competitor's camera's (Hasselblad / Pentax), although hacks do exist.

Alex

Quote from: tensor on January 05, 2018, 11:24:50 PM
... because of its keyword management.

Converting into DNG for management purposes is possible after exporting to TIFF etc by converting them into DNGs (I.O.W. you can use Phocus on your .3FR to do the raw file conversion, demosaic & bake it into a TIFF etc and then convert that into a linear DNG for your file library):
http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/articles/dng/linear.htm

Hassilistic

Quote from: tensor on January 05, 2018, 09:42:18 AM
Hi all,

does anyone know or can imagine if it is a good idea to import 3fr X1D camera files via Phocus, make some basic adjustments, export it as DNG and doing all remaining tasks in DXO, Exposé 3, or Adobe? I see that the 3fr file is 107MB and the DNG file 70MB. The question is, how much do I loos if I am going this way?
Here is another thread on this topic with additional details already covered from last March: http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=4902.msg20442#msg20442

tensor

Thank you very much to all for your hints and opinions. For me as a consequence I will use Adobe LR as a primary tool and in parallel improve my skills on Phocus to get the most out of my images. DxO,  Luminas,  Alienskin doesn't support 3fr at this time. I hope that DxO and later together with NIK will support Hasselblad. What I really like about Adobe is the way you can organize your photos, and together with their 3fr support, it is from my point of view the only toolset (LR & PS) which supports the complete workflow of editing and organizing photos in a homogenous way.

Hassilistic

Quote from: tensor on January 08, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
it is from my point of view the only toolset (LR & PS) which supports the complete workflow of editing and organizing photos in a homogenous way.
Not quite, industry Pros the likes of News Reports/sports photographers/and other similar types only use PhotoMechanics.  Check it out, it integrates with alot of other programs, plugins.

Keep it simple, export from phocus to Tiff 16 or 8bit, and use any programs you like, liberate yourself from any limitations imposed by any particular app.

aikbo

Hello, while shooting teetered I like to make a backup during the shoot. I use export automaticall,y DNG files. However, I would like to have a copy of the FFF files as a back-up. Any suggestions?

Hassilistic

Your 3F files are typically stored in the Phocus Capture folder.  So even if you export to DNG, those files should still be there.
Once I am done with the export, I manually move the files to an External Drive for secure safekeeping.  On a previous thread, there was even talk about saving the 3FR files for future improvements in Phocus software and hardware can help yield even better results than what you are seeing now.

The only concern, of course, is the expense associated with storage costs, be it on the cloud or physical drives in NAS formation.  My view if you are a working professional, these negatives are an investment worth spending a little extra on.

sortvitt

Quote from: Hassilistic on January 09, 2018, 01:03:22 AM
Quote from: tensor on January 08, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
it is from my point of view the only toolset (LR & PS) which supports the complete workflow of editing and organizing photos in a homogenous way.
Not quite, industry Pros the likes of News Reports/sports photographers/and other similar types only use PhotoMechanics.  Check it out, it integrates with alot of other programs, plugins.

Keep it simple, export from phocus to Tiff 16 or 8bit, and use any programs you like, liberate yourself from any limitations imposed by any particular app.

Would be great if PM supported 3fr and fff.