Does anyone know where I can find or get a copy of these ICC profiles? I would like to compare them with other gamut workspaces as I am contemplating a new printing workflow and I can't seem to find them on my computer.
L * download:
http://www.colormanagement.org/de/workingspaces.html
using this one already many years...
Thanks Buddy. That looks like a link to an RGB workspace simulating Lab, which also looks very interesting. What I'm really looking for and should have been more clear about is Hasselblad's version of that color space that Phocus uses and one can select in Reproduction to work in Phocus. It may be the same, but I had thought H had modified the Lab and Adobe RGB workspaces a bit so that color processing outcomes in Phocus were more pleasing.
I'm trying to understand in particular whether either or both of those color spaces fall outside of the human visual gamut CIEXY (most commonly associated with CIE RGB), because I think I am learning that using imaginary colors in a printing pipeline can introduce unwanted/unseeable anomalies when manipulated heavily in post. My suspicion is that Hasselblad RGB is "safe" in that respect, but Hasselblad L* is unknown to me, and I might not want to use it if it includes imaginary colors.
Anyway, I suspect it is locked up in Phocus and not accessible. But if anyone knows otherwise please let us know.
Mine are in the following location in Windows 10:
"C:\Program Files\Hasselblad\Hasselblad Tether Plugin 1.4\Phocus\Profiles\"
Huh, I'm on a mac and don't see anything like that directory structure. What's the name of the .icc or .icm file? Maybe I can locate it that way . . .
OK, search for;
Hasselblad 330Skel 30K75.icc
Hasselblad 350Skel 30K90
Hasselblad Gray.icc
Hasselblad RGB.icc
HasselbladLStarRGB.icc
Profiles live in various places on a mac. library, ~library, application support and so on. Best to do a search as suggested above.
Quote from: Brad Paulson on December 30, 2017, 09:34:45 AM
Huh, I'm on a mac and don't see anything like that directory structure. What's the name of the .icc or .icm file? Maybe I can locate it that way . . .
Try: \Library\ColorSync\Profiles
The gamut of Hasselblad Lstar.icc covers most of the human perceptible CIE Lab space and is of similar size to Pro Photo RGB.icc (encompassing more of the Cyans & less of the Blue-purple areas).
Thanks All. I have a 2009 Power Mac onto which I migrated an even older mac platform. Sounds bad, but I've souped it up real, real good. But my directory structure is a mess. I finally found the files in a hidden Library file in one of my users directory but had to resort to pay Apple USD 7.99 for a finder program to locate it because even unhiding my files in Terminal, Finder wouldn't find it. The program is "Find Any File" on the mac store. I copied the icc files into my regular Colorsync directory and won't have to worry about finding it again!
That aside, I loaded up (1) Hasselblad RGB and Adobe RGB and (2) Hasselblad L* and ProPhoto RGB into ColorThink to map out the gamut space in 3D. Attached are two screenshots. You can use the ColorSync utility to do something similar.
I'm quite surprised to see the difference in working spaces. Obviously there is some clear Hasselblad thinking in the gamut designs here. I don't know what it all means, but my first take on the L* space is that its pretty exciting. It seems to clip some of the imaginary colors in ProPhoto in the dark blues. These can give printers, printer profiles and color rendering engines challenges because nobody really seems to know how to render imaginary colors or fit them into visible light gamuts. There's the same problems in yellows and greens. Anyway, I'm going to try to map these against CIEXY to see how well that might work and probably think about this some more. If you're interested more in this you can click http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=122152.0 (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=122152.0) to read through a dialogue I'm enduring with people much more expert than me on another site.
There have been a few mentions on the net about the Hasselblad profiles, that they equal too and even exceed the ProPhoto profile. The thing to remember is that once you export to another program unless you specifically force load the profiles there, you are no longer using these fantastic color spaces from Hasselblad, and your closest bet is to use ProPhoto as a substitute.
A quick note to folks new to this: We acknowledge the fast pace of technological development, and while the current argument that these color spaces are too big and cause too many issues that will require fixing at the processing output stage. We still wish to retain the highest and biggest color space for our media files till when technology catches up. Additionally, this matters now to those doing Proofing workflow for printing. (stop reading if you don't know what that is)
Quote from: Hassilistic on January 03, 2018, 07:06:53 PM
There have been a few mentions on the net about the Hasselblad profiles, that they equal too and even exceed the ProPhoto profile. The thing to remember is that once you export to another program unless you specifically force load the profiles there, you are no longer using these fantastic color spaces from Hasselblad, and your closest bet is to use ProPhoto as a substitute.
A quick note to folks new to this: We acknowledge the fast pace of technological development, and while the current argument that these color spaces are too big and cause too many issues that will require fixing at the processing output stage. We still wish to retain the highest and biggest color space for our media files till when technology catches up. Additionally, this matters now to those doing Proofing workflow for printing. (stop reading if you don't know what that is)
... but Hassilistic, some would love to read more...!
If you would like to learn more about colour look up writing by Martin Evening, and Dan Margulis.
Hi Nick - Happy New Year!
I just googled several times but didn't find anything specific to H's RGB and L* workspace, only general discussions and a book. I may well have missed something. A link for us readers would be great!
Quote from: NickT on January 04, 2018, 12:08:51 PM
If you would like to learn more about colour look up writing by Martin Evening, and Dan Margulis.
Not some general lecture, but why, when and how L* is used in Phocus.
Quote from: Domip on January 03, 2018, 09:40:18 PM
... but Hassilistic, some would love to read more...!
When in Phocus the Workspace is always in Hasselblad RGB. However, The new Hasselblad L* RGB working space is especially relevant if you are working with image reproduction. Which can be selected when using the Repro tool.
Once in a Third party, if you wish to continue to remain utilising the same workspace (and who can blame you), then you must load it manually, and only Hasselblad RGB at that.
I wonder if the team at Hasselblad can simplify this process for us, by burning it in the Metadata file when we save prior to exporting. Then once in LR for instance, you can just scroll down to Camera Calibration and select the colour profile from the drop-down menu as LR would easily be able to read it from the files metadata. Just a thought.
I usually do that when editing my GH5 camera files in LR after a long Time-lapse shot, and I wish to remain using the Vlog or CineD in LR, then I simply retrieve it as it is burned in the Raw file, but completely lost if I converted to DNG.
PS. Do note that LR will write everything done to an image on the sidecar file, as it can only burn the Metadata to specific types of file and not to a propriety Raw files of various companies.
PSS. All of this can help you with the edits, but when it comes to proofing for output as I mentioned previously, other pre-arranged ICC profiles will need to be used for accurate results of output media, for instance, a printed file. You will need to load the paper profile either from the manufacturer (such as Canson or Epson) or make one yourself using an ICC profiling device like the xRitePro, and gage your proofs and make last minute adjustments to match the paper. If it sounds like a lot, that's because it is. Which is why it is always helpful to collaborate with a good print shop for your work (that is if you wish to get it printed in the first place), and the pace at which technology is evolving it is just too much, and takes much needed time from your original work. I had to learn as I am not always near a Pro Lab or a Pro Print shop.
I've been exporting TIFFs with embedded 16 bit H RGB and L* ICC profiles by setting up a custom export preset in the export dialogue box. To use L*, it appears that you have select L* as your working space in Phocus (under Reproduction), and set the custom export dialogue to use the "source" working space. Be sure to select the 16 bit TIFF export if you do this, not the 8 bit which is too small for that large of a workspace. During the last few days, I've used these files successfully in Photoshop and surprisingly all PS plugins I've used to date too. I imagine it would work in LR, though I've stopped using LR now, if you are willing to work there with TIFFs.
Now that I located the L* ICC profile, I also created a printer ICC profile during the last few days (one needs a spectrocolorimeter and software to do that) that translates the L* colorspace directly to the printer colorspace. If you make one, you can use the printer ICC profile to accurately soft proof your printer/paper combo. Seems to work very well so far. The L* space is huge, like ProPhoto, which isn't necessarily great when downsampling those gamuts into narrower printer colorspaces. So finally I'm working with ArgyllCMS to create custom image gamuts based on the image's specific gamut and mapping that image's gamut directly to the printer. This latter step of making custom image gamuts is completely impractical if you make large prints, have only a moderately powerful computer, and wish to produce more than a few new pictures a day, and there is a steep learning curve. The processing times for large files meter long images can take a while and make you think you've been transported back to the 1980s. But I'm learning it anyway.
The nice thing about this workflow is it should avoid any image clipping that might otherwise occur when converting to the more common Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB workspaces, any other color mapping degradation in the conversion process, and you can continue to work in the gamut that was used initially to process the raw file. It's too soon to tell if it makes much of a practical difference, but theoretically it seems likely it will.
I would really like to learn more about Hasselblad L* – if anybody has any docs or links too share, I'm sure there would be a few people here who would be grateful.
Addendum: I found Topaz Studio only uses ProPhoto RGB, so at least one plugin doesn't work in the L* workspace. I imagine now others might not. I use this for sharpening, but found a workaround. Save in ProPhoto, open in PS and convert to L*, open the original (already worked over file) and Topaz Edited file together in Layers in L* workspace, and blend the Topaz processed file in Luminosity mode. Yet more time ...
Thanks Brad and friends, you´re very helpful for me. But I have two questions:
-- After work at L*RGB, when you export the Tiff-16, what´s the best Hasselblad profile: Rec.709, 330Skel or 350Skel?
-- I never print, I always send my final tif or jpg to my clients. In Phocus, which one is the best Reproduction mode to use: Standard, Reproduction or Low Gain Reproduction?
Thanks a lot!
Quote from: Juan Pascual Garrido on February 14, 2018, 04:13:20 AM
-- After work at L*RGB, when you export the Tiff-16, what´s the best Hasselblad profile: Rec.709, 330Skel or 350Skel?
Stay in L*RGB (export as source), being an L* and not a gamma based profile (like ProphotoRGB), it's a better workspace profile to work in (or if the subject matter is not too colorful, you can output into EciRGBv2.icc as it is also uses a L*curve). Once you're finished then you can convert it for archive in ProPhotoRGB.icc
Quote from: Juan Pascual Garrido on February 14, 2018, 04:13:20 AM
-- I never print, I always send my final tif or jpg to my clients. In Phocus, which one is the best Reproduction mode to use: Standard, Reproduction or Low Gain Reproduction?
The different Reproduction modes are essentially different curves applied to the Raw image - so it all depends what kind of look you are after - however if you're looking for the best view of the linear original image then use Low Gain Reproduction.
Thanks Alex! :)